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Search found 269 matches

by mickeyd
January 16th, 2011, 11:18 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Dear All,

The proof of God goes beyond logic, it's in your HEARTS and ALL AROUND YOU!

Goodbye and God Bless!

Mike Dyson
by mickeyd
January 15th, 2011, 7:48 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Hi Lord Muck, What's going on? Have you abandoned your claim? Or are you now defining it? Or are you implying that the burden of proof has shifted? Or something else entirely? I'm talking about 'proof'. What is sad about listening to Thundril is that he wants to restrict the human mind to being noth...
by mickeyd
January 15th, 2011, 1:22 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Hi animist, Look, let's get one thing straight. There are people on this earth who respect me, and they don't do so because I'm full of pride. So I regard your comment as a silly outburst. We have engaged in debate on the question of whether or not something can from nothing. Part of my response to ...
by mickeyd
January 15th, 2011, 12:58 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Thundril, Where you're wrong is in asserting that rationality and logic are one and the same, and that therefore a rational proof of a proposition, whilst it cannot be contrary to logic, necessarily depends on logic to refute every alternative proposition. Your completely ignoring all the logical pa...
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 10:36 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Animist,

Poppycock. Because I disagree with you I must be full of pride? Doesn't that make you full of pride?

And as I say, if you would just answer my question you might see why I have nothing to acknowledge to you. Why do you find it hard to believe that something can come from nothing?

Mick
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 10:06 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Thundril, Chopping about with nice points about your personal interpretation of the word 'rational' is a sign of your level of desperation. No, it's a sign that your intellectually crass and prejudiced. Yet I welcome your desire to test my arguments, but we must accept that there is more to human ra...
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 10:04 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Thundril, Additional comment: The question you raise is important if one concedes that either (i) the universe 'just is' or (ii) it's created by something that possesses the power of inevitable existence, because then the rejection of the former entails belief in God. And I believe that logic rules ...
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 9:19 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Hi thundril, Which completely contradicts your starting assertion! It depends on how you define rationality. I regard logic as a subset of rationality, and rationality as the entire intellectual faculty. Even though logic is inescapable, there is more to the human mind than logic. And I regard the p...
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 8:31 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Animist,

You are now talking about correlation and its relation to causation, which has nothing to do with the topic we were on.


That's exactly my point! It has nothing to do with the topic, which is whether or not existence can come (logically) from non-existence.

Mick
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 8:27 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Hi animist,

I would like you first simply to acknowledge that you were wrong about logical necessity


I can't acknowledge what I have no need to acknowledge. It might help you to recognize the truth of this statement if you would answer my question.

Regards,
Mick
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 8:26 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Hi Nick, Why should theism provide a better explanation for consciousness than deism? Because (a) God did not create the universe out of himself (pantheism, which is logically invalid) and therefore it depends on his continuous creative activity every moment of its being, which is the antithesis of ...
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 8:17 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Thundril, I could suggest fairies, a game between Loki and Pan, or even luck as possible explanations for the Universe This is way off track Thundril. The best explanatory hypothesis is the one whose negation involves the greatest contradiction . Re. "luck", I thought we'd already agreed t...
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 12:32 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Animist, I mean this: The non-necessity of friction causing heat does not imply that non-existence can cause heat. The fact that correlation doesn't prove causation is irrelevant to the truth or falsity of the law of causality. For example: Bicycles are strongly correlated with air pollution Therefo...
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 12:24 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Hi Thundril, Theists cannot 'prove' the existence of god by logic, and atheists cannot 'prove' the non-existence of god by logical wrangling either. Agreed. But then the best explanation is the one which encompasses the widest range of phenomena under consideration. Theism does an infinitely better ...
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 12:12 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Hi animist, "Friction causes heat" is not a logically necessary statement Your counter-example would be valid if and only if it read "nothing causes heat is not necessarily a logically invalid statement". I find it hard to believe in spontaneous creation of matter from nothing Wh...
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 12:22 am
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Hi animist,

You really should look at a basic book on philosophy to see that logical impossibility has nothing to do with causation.


Okay, then open your book and quote from it.

Mick
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 12:19 am
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Paolo, The same could be true of the Universe... You're ignoring the point that the origin of the Universe is not a valid argument for the existence of God, which is the point of this thread. Yes, the universe could 'just be'. But no, I am not ignoring the point of this thread, for the very reason y...
by mickeyd
January 14th, 2011, 12:10 am
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Hi thundril, Allowing that B seems to imply that I think something can come to exist without cause, (a reasonable interpretation, in the context,) I can see that you might think, at first glance, that these two statements cover all possibilities, that these two statements are mutually exclusive, and...
by mickeyd
January 13th, 2011, 12:26 am
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Thundril, We do not agree that " something cannot come to exist without cause,". Hold on a minute, you've already posted today "I have not said that "something can become existent without cause."" So which is it? Can it or can't it? Which leads to a further point. Your ...
by mickeyd
January 12th, 2011, 11:24 pm
Forum: Religion
Topic: Arguments for the existence of God
Replies: 807
Views: 115623

Re: Arguments for the existence of God

Hi again thundril, To be fair, I ought to say that I don't dispute that an analogy of one thing is not necessarily a good analogy of something else, and even if you're particular attempt to show this with the money example lacks precision, that should not and does not stop me from conceding your per...

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