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Complementary therapies

Any topic related to science can be discussed here.
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Cain Cocteau
Posts: 17
Joined: June 28th, 2011, 8:16 am

Re: Complementary therapies

#441 Post by Cain Cocteau » July 2nd, 2011, 9:50 am

Latest post of the previous page:

Herbs are food. In my humble opinion I think that some people take or use them improperly which is supported by lack of information , so one is left to guess how it is used. Herbal remedies are used as a prevention to certain problems, or to balance the body. It is not really useful in acute immediate issues. It isn't an emergency concept. So if you had a lathargic adrenal gland affecting your bodily function , you can take a certain thing to compensate , and thus it is helpful. I have used many things that worked, and a few that didn't. What I really support is arranging diet to where you get what you need through food. I have solved A LOT of issues through diet.

aromatherapy is fantastic, I compare it like this...I like nice looking things in my house, I create atmosphere and visual character that pleases me.
I wear silk, i like the way it feels..... ( i could keep goin gbut you get the point) smell is important, and naturally some smells will relax, some will have various affects and the incense that states the intention on the package like "calm" or "energy" it may not work so well for everybody, BUT you can find the right ones and it is useful

acupuncture works , like someone said previously ,it helps for short term needs..My acupuncture specialist tried to get me to do a therapy called "waking the dragon" which I declined, because it sounded silly.....it had no specific purpose but I used it before back surgery and it worked remarkably well.

I have had Reiki from a master before. I found the exchange of intentional energy was extremely moving and powerful. I would recommend this IF you can "let go" and enjoy the energy.

meditation...good stuff. I underuse this tool.

Yoga is good stuff too, for obvious reasons

LOVE YOUR FACE
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Maria Mac
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Re: Complementary therapies

#442 Post by Maria Mac » July 2nd, 2011, 2:54 pm

Hi Cain
Cain Cocteau wrote:Herbal remedies are used as a prevention to certain problems, or to balance the body.
Balance the body? Could you explain what you mean by that?
So if you had a lathargic adrenal gland affecting your bodily function , you can take a certain thing to compensate , and thus it is helpful.
Are you saying there is a herb that compensates for a lethargic adrenal gland?

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Alan H
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Re: Complementary therapies

#443 Post by Alan H » July 2nd, 2011, 3:02 pm

Cain Cocteau wrote:acupuncture works
For what?
I have had Reiki from a master before. I found the exchange of intentional energy was extremely moving and powerful. I would recommend this IF you can "let go" and enjoy the energy.
Intentional energy? What's that?
Yoga is good stuff too, for obvious reasons
Gentle exercise and stretching is probably a benefit to many!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Cain Cocteau
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Re: Complementary therapies

#444 Post by Cain Cocteau » July 3rd, 2011, 5:54 am

After reading the "Malik files" I would like to say, I am ,by no means, endorsing "complementary therapies" I know that some things I have tried , worked somewhat for me. After having had some rather serious health issues in my life, I suppose I sometimes grasped at straws.I will say the same about western medicine.
But since I am knee deep in the do-do on this topic, I will explain what I meant in my posting.
Athena and Alan..

I do think that a term like "balance the body" lends to the idea that i can eat "tree gum" or some crap, and make my body vibrate with positive energy, but I do not think its THAT broad. What I meant was, I have taken "white tree bark" for a headache remedy , and it was successful for me. IT seems to "balance" whatever is causing the inflammation. not the boday as a whole.

Secondly, I am not sure anyone could accurately diagnose a "lethargic adrenal gland" but I have taken an herbal pill for erectile dysfunction and it worked 90% as well as Viagra , and things of the sort. The herbal stuff didnt cause my eyeballs to want to pop out, or heart palpitations (giggling) and I didnt need to go to hospital for erections lasting more than 4 hours.(busting out laughing) At this point one would wonder Was i diagnosed with erectile dysfunction , and I was, although I am not sure how he ever figured that out, he never saw my penis.(Rolling on the floor laughing)

Thirdly, I have had back problems for 10 years or so that left me using canes to walk and the like. During this time I had some simple acupuncture done at an Annex office to my health providers, and I assume it tends to confuse the nerves, much like the TENS unit I wore for quite a while that did similar by means of electric pulses. It wore of rather quick , and I always had massages every other week after the week for acupuncture. It did not compare to the morphine, but was less addictive.

fourthly, What i meant by intentional energy was simply the energy intended to help.
REIKI for me, was simply the energy of one, connecting to energy with the intention to help. Like the energy of sexual arousal ..without the erection or sex. I would say that you know it when you feel it.
It too , was not a cure all but I figured it couldn't hurt. (note) I didn't pay for reiki and I probably wouldn't but it didn't hurt.

I think I came into this forum, and this conversation with the intention to casually chat about all of this, however I would NEVER recommend anyone with serious problems depend on these things solely or self diagnosing a problem. If you choose to do any of it as a complimentary therapy, then do what works..But do not be taken advantage of.
A mirror should take time to reflect before throwing back images

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Dave B
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Re: Complementary therapies

#445 Post by Dave B » July 3rd, 2011, 9:59 am

I have taken "white tree bark" for a headache remedy , and it was successful for me.
Some tree barks contain genuine medicinal compounds; the willow (salix) contains salicylic acid (Aspirin) - good for head aches. There are other bark sources of medication, like the anti-malarial and anti-arrhythmia compounds in the bark of the cinchona tree.

Nothing complimentary about either of those compounds, the medical profession have "stolen" it, refined and purified it, then made artificial versions, to make it more available and acceptable. Good natural compounds!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: Complementary therapies

#446 Post by Alan H » July 3rd, 2011, 11:23 am

There are several issues:

Anecdotes tell us nothing about whether anything works. Even lots of anecdotes don't tell us. They may indicate that something might be worth testing independently and properly, but we cannot and should not be basing medical decisions on anecdote. But to rely on anecdotes is utterly misleading because of all the biases that are bound up in that. There are very few alternative therapies that cannot decisively be measured with a well-designed, blinded, randomised and controlled trial that separates out the different effects, particularly the specific from the non-specific effects. Acupuncture is one of the more challenging ones, but it's perfectly possible to do. And when good trials are done, they show virtually no specific effect from sticking needles in people.

Many herbal products have a pharmacological effect. However, as David Colquhoun, Professor of Pharamacology at UCL said, herbal medicine is "giving patients an unknown dose of an ill-defined drug, of unknown effectiveness and unknown safety."

In the UK (I'm not sure how the FDA treat herbals in the US), the MHRA register some herbal products, but scant evidence is required for safety and zero evidence for efficacy. They are given the imprimatur of Government respectability but through a level of regulation that does little to protect the public. They are called 'medicines', yet they have an enormously reduced requirements to that of medicines from 'Big Pharma'.

For many who advertise their particular brand of alternative therapy, they make outrageous claims that are just not supported by independent evidence. They encourage people to delay or prevent people from seeking proper (and possibly urgent) medical attention.

And don't get me started on the alleged mechanism of action for all those nonsense therapies! :D
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: Complementary therapies

#447 Post by Dave B » July 3rd, 2011, 12:04 pm

And when people mix "standard" medicines and herbal remedies:
The inquest into the death of a man in Ireland has highlighted the dangers of combining herbal products with medication.
Cormac O'Sullivan, 21, died from cardio-respiratory failure caused by drinking Kratom tea mixed with sedatives and muscular pain relief drugs. Kratom tea is marketed for its relaxation properties.
Here

and
Of the 10,000 deaths caused by adverse reactions to prescription drugs every year, a “significant number” were likely to have been caused by patients mixing their treatments with complementary medicines . . .
Here
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan C.
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Re: Complementary therapies

#448 Post by Alan C. » August 23rd, 2011, 3:51 pm

Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

Maria Mac
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Re: Complementary therapies

#449 Post by Maria Mac » September 15th, 2011, 4:38 pm

And here's an interesting report from Pakistan Today about scumbag quackworms crawling out of the woodwork to exploit people's fears of the dengue virus. Nothing surprising but I like the way the paper tells it like it is.

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2011/09 ... %E2%80%A6/

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Trickle
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Re: Complementary therapies

#450 Post by Trickle » November 3rd, 2011, 10:28 pm

I am generally distrustful of complimentary therapies because I am sceptical about the proposed mechanisms by which they are supposed to work and find the woo aspect of most complimentary therapies off-putting.

The only aspect of complimentary therapy which I believe is worthy of noting is the greater amount of time spent with patients which is generally emotionally beneficial, may potentially has a positive benefit to their well-being, and is something which I feel is increasing lacking in professional medicine in my country due to the pressures on medical practitioners to focus on quantity of care rather than quality.

The combination of the placebo effect and someone who the patient believes to be medically competent spending time with them can, in some cases, have a strong influence on their general well-being, particually in instances of psychologically based illness which may manifest themselves as physical discomfort. I believe that it's been found that anti-depressants have been found to have some effect on such psychologically manifested discomfort so it wouldn't be appropriate to say that professional medical science can't deal with these issues.

I personally occasionally practice Tai Chi and meditation which some consider to be a complimentary therapy and certainly the available written material on Tai Chi does include a fair amount of woo regarding energies and suchlike. That aside I find the gentle physical exercise and meditation to be relaxing and effective at calming my mind. I feel that I am somewhat predisposed to anxiousness and that these activities can help calm me under controlled circumstances such as in my bedroom but when at work and dealing with people whose behaviour is routinely confrontational and aggressive I don't believe practising Tai Chi or meditation makes that much difference to my emotional reaction to these kind of behaviours.

I had a quick look at the Cochrane Collaboration website to see if there was much about Tai Chi and wasn't able to find much on the topic.
I am currently reading...The Hedgehog, The Fox and The Magisters Pox by Stephen Jay Gould

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Alan H
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Re: Complementary therapies

#451 Post by Alan H » November 4th, 2011, 4:17 pm

Well worth reading:

Lessons from the History of Medical Delusions by Worthington Hooker
Spoiler:
It was written in 1850 - not that much has changed.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: Complementary therapies

#452 Post by Dave B » November 4th, 2011, 5:04 pm

I liked:

Image
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: Complementary therapies

#453 Post by Alan H » November 4th, 2011, 7:01 pm

There are several excellent quotes from it. I'm a sucker for the language and the sometimes long sentence structure, but very readable.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Maria Mac
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:34 pm

Re: Complementary therapies

#454 Post by Maria Mac » December 9th, 2011, 6:31 pm

I'm bookmarking this rather nice piece by Mark Radcliffe in a recent issue of the Nursing Times:

http://www.nursingtimes.net/nursing-pra ... 26.article

And, in the interests of "balance", here's the appalling response from one Dr Charlotte Mendes da Costa who, as an NHS GP promoting homeopathy, is the worst sort of quack:

http://www.nursingtimes.net/dont-dismis ... 12.article

I commented beneath it. :deadhorse:

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Alan C.
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Re: Complementary therapies

#455 Post by Alan C. » December 9th, 2011, 7:45 pm

Alan Henness | 9-Dec-2011 1:21 pm

mike said:

"...there are also many 'complimentary therapies' that HAVE been proven to work."

Which ones are you referring to?
He attempts an explanation in the comments here Alan, not a very good one though IMHO.
I would agree that the usual hippy chick aromatherapy for example is rubbish, has been proven not to work and I would never advise my patients to use it to cure cancer or whatever, what about other 'complimentary therapies' such as Yoga or Tai Chi or massage for example(yes technically they are under the same label too). I have advised many patients that alongside their traditional western treatment, doing a bit of gentle excercise (sic) and Tai Chi may help their recovery from their knee op or whatever they have had.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Alan H
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Re: Complementary therapies

#456 Post by Alan H » December 9th, 2011, 9:07 pm

Thanks for pointing that out Alan. I think he probably can see which way the comments are going and may not have the courage to jump back in!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Tetenterre
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Re: Complementary therapies

#457 Post by Tetenterre » December 10th, 2011, 11:20 am

Athena wrote: I commented beneath it. :deadhorse:
Excellent rebuttal, IMO.

Also IMO, what Mendes da Costa wrote is evidence for nothing but the parlous state of science education in general and medical training in particular in the UK.
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Alan H
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Re: Complementary therapies

#458 Post by Alan H » December 10th, 2011, 1:18 pm

I'm quite enjoying commenting on it - they're the same old canards, of course, so easily refuted.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Complementary therapies

#459 Post by Alan H » January 10th, 2012, 12:10 am

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Complementary therapies

#460 Post by Dave B » January 10th, 2012, 8:42 am

Excellent!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: Complementary therapies

#461 Post by Alan H » January 14th, 2012, 11:55 pm

Is there no woo so utterly stupid that people won't believe it and/or exploit others?

Consciouness and Network Spinal Analysis

It really gets going at 1 minute in.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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