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Electric Fluence Machines

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Electric Fluence Machines

#21 Post by Dave B » August 22nd, 2010, 7:57 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

IIRC, it takes just a milliamp directly through the heart to cause serious problems. . .
Hmm, I must work out what current my ICD delivers into my heart. I know it is 813V and about 30J, but can't remember what duration the pulses are and that is critical to find the current if IIRC. External defibrillators deliver up to 300J, but I am not sure of the voltage.

The ICD shocks are delivered between the case of the device (under the skin between my left collar bone and my heart) and the interior of the heart at the bottom corner of the left ventricle.

Obviously not fatal (!) but certainly gets one's attention if one is concious at the time . . .
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Fia
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Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: Electric Fluence Machines

#22 Post by Fia » August 22nd, 2010, 8:13 pm

When I recently received a scary shock from a client's malfunctioning kettle, I popped by my GP surgery after as my heart was well thumping, I was breathless, and felt odder than usual. Having ascertained I was basically ok, he said "Well at least you won't have to worry about depression for a good few weeks" :D

Those with depression: please don't try this at home, particularly in the UK where, being British, we have more volts :)

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Dave B
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Re: Electric Fluence Machines

#23 Post by Dave B » August 22nd, 2010, 8:44 pm

Ooooh nasty!

Did anything get done to remove or fix the dangerous kettle?
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Alan H
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Re: Electric Fluence Machines

#24 Post by Alan H » August 22nd, 2010, 11:27 pm

Dave B wrote:
IIRC, it takes just a milliamp directly through the heart to cause serious problems. . .
Hmm, I must work out what current my ICD delivers into my heart. I know it is 813V and about 30J, but can't remember what duration the pulses are and that is critical to find the current if IIRC. External defibrillators deliver up to 300J, but I am not sure of the voltage.
I suspect the voltage will be the upper hundreds of volts or may be over 1 kV, but will be controlled to give the correct energy (200J/360J are standard).
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Fia
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Re: Electric Fluence Machines

#25 Post by Fia » August 23rd, 2010, 10:14 am

Dave B wrote:Ooooh nasty!

Did anything get done to remove or fix the dangerous kettle?
Yup, I bought her a new one :D

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Dave B
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Re: Electric Fluence Machines

#26 Post by Dave B » August 23rd, 2010, 10:39 am

Fia wrote:
Dave B wrote:Ooooh nasty!

Did anything get done to remove or fix the dangerous kettle?
Yup, I bought her a new one :D
Image
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Daniel P
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Joined: March 30th, 2009, 12:38 pm

Re: Electric Fluence Machines

#27 Post by Daniel P » September 2nd, 2010, 8:09 pm

jdc wrote: There's a picture of one here: http://picasaweb.google.com/10811918835 ... 4944622178
I heard Andy Lewis speak at Winchester Skeptics in the Pub recently. He was saying that he had taken one of these machines apart, and found that some of the parts, e.g. wires, were not connected to any circuit and therefore could not perform a functional role.

If I remember well, the machine he was talking about had been sold by a modern-day "alternative health" shop. It was supposed to make the patient feel better by generating a magnetic field, or some quackery like that. I could be remembering wrong though.

Daniel P
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Re: Electric Fluence Machines

#28 Post by Daniel P » September 2nd, 2010, 8:16 pm

lewist wrote: Isn't it interesting that one of the main uses was for 'hysteria'? I guess it was ok to torture women in those days.
It's still OK to torture vulnerable psychiatric patients, according to some sinister characters and to the Massachusetts legislation:

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life ... 732991.ece

The article is three years old, but, as far as I know, the institution it refers to is still in operation.

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Dave B
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Re: Electric Fluence Machines

#29 Post by Dave B » September 2nd, 2010, 8:22 pm

If it was one of the old machines I would guess that it was not in pristine condition. In every picture that I have seen the principle of operation is quite obvious - whether or not it had an therapeutic properties is entirely another matter.

Remember that you can still buy "therapeutic" magnetic bracelets etc, even for dogs, if you are mug enough. Or even copper bracelets to help with your arthritis!

But then, how about TENS - "Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation"? It seems that these devices do have beneficial effects in blocking pain.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Dave B
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Re: Electric Fluence Machines

#30 Post by Dave B » September 2nd, 2010, 8:26 pm

Daniel P wrote:
lewist wrote: Isn't it interesting that one of the main uses was for 'hysteria'? I guess it was ok to torture women in those days.
It's still OK to torture vulnerable psychiatric patients, according to some sinister characters and to the Massachusetts legislation:

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life ... 732991.ece

The article is three years old, but, as far as I know, the institution it refers to is still in operation.
That is horrendous, but considering some of the things America has done to similar people over the years it does not surprise me.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Paolo
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Re: Electric Fluence Machines

#31 Post by Paolo » September 3rd, 2010, 7:50 am

Alan H wrote:That was what was on the Victorian Pharmacy the other night, wasn't it?

I think I saw one at the Wellcome Collection, I assume they just generate a hundred or so volts [---][/---] it'll feel as if the 'doctor' is doing something powerful to you and so enhance the placebo effect.
Next time I'm talking to one of the curators at the Wellcome collection I'll ask about this, they may have more info relating to the historical use and function of such machines.

jdc
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Joined: January 27th, 2009, 9:03 pm

Re: Electric Fluence Machines

#32 Post by jdc » September 3rd, 2010, 11:38 pm

Daniel P wrote:
jdc wrote: There's a picture of one here: http://picasaweb.google.com/10811918835 ... 4944622178
I heard Andy Lewis speak at Winchester Skeptics in the Pub recently. He was saying that he had taken one of these machines apart, and found that some of the parts, e.g. wires, were not connected to any circuit and therefore could not perform a functional role.

If I remember well, the machine he was talking about had been sold by a modern-day "alternative health" shop. It was supposed to make the patient feel better by generating a magnetic field, or some quackery like that. I could be remembering wrong though.
I think it might have been a more modern machine he'd taken apart. Did he show you a hand-drawn diagram of the 'circuit'? He did when I saw him talk at Brum Skeptics. Smashing bloke - had a couple of pints with him afterwards. </namedropping>
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