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Homeopathy

Any topic related to science can be discussed here.
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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#1081 Post by Alan H » June 27th, 2013, 11:24 am

Latest post of the previous page:

Health board plans to axe funding for homeopathy treatment

Helen Puttick
Health Correspondent
Thursday 27 June 2013

FUNDING for homeopathic clinics used by hundreds of patients a year is to be axed by a major Scottish health board.

NHS Lothian has announced that, following a major consultation process, it is to "move away" from providing homeopathic services – including sending patients to Glasgow Homeopathic Hospital.

The decision follows a survey, conducted for the health board, which found 72% of respondents did not want NHS Lothian to pay for this controversial form of care.

Homeopathy is a branch of alternative medicine based on the use of highly diluted substances that practitioners claim can cause the body to heal itself.

While some patients find the approach very beneficial, the weight of scientific evidence is yet to show it is effective and NHS managers around the UK have reviewed funding for the treatments.

However, John Cook, chairman of the British Homeopathic Association, said shutting the NHS Lothian service would not save money. He said: "Concerns have already been expressed by NHS Lothian itself that withdrawing funding for homeopathy will result in an increase in GP appointments, referrals to secondary care services and prescribing costs for conventional medicine."

Homeopathy services in NHS Lothian include clinics at three venues as well as referrals to the Glasgow centre on the Gartnavel General site. In 2010/11, the clinics received approximately 200 new referrals and provided 1573 appointments.

The Glasgow Homeopathic Hospital and NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde said it was a "sustainable service". How-ever, the board added: "We are reliant on the ongoing commitment from other boards to make use of the inpatient services to maintain their viability. We will therefore examine the impact of NHS Lothian's decision. Any changes which may arise as a result of funding decisions by NHS boards in Scotland would be the subject of full consultation with staff and patients."

The British Medical Association in Scotland has repeatedly called for public funding of the hospital to cease unless evidence is offered to prove homeopathy offers more than a "placebo effect".
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
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Tetenterre
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Re: Homeopathy

#1082 Post by Tetenterre » June 28th, 2013, 11:42 am

Discussion on BBC Radio Scotland, http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02x9fsf, 55:30
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#1083 Post by Alan H » June 28th, 2013, 12:12 pm

I only caught the end of it, but will listen to it all later.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Altfish
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Re: Homeopathy

#1084 Post by Altfish » July 3rd, 2013, 12:33 pm

There is an article in the Daily Fail on line...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... laims.html

To be fair to the mail the article is ok; but some of the comments are priceless, my favourite is...

Homoeopathy is purely safer & homoeopathy medicines are highly diluted to increase the quality of the medicine.

Maria Mac
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Re: Homeopathy

#1085 Post by Maria Mac » July 3rd, 2013, 3:52 pm


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Tetenterre
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Re: Homeopathy

#1086 Post by Tetenterre » July 12th, 2013, 6:06 pm

Back in May, the Judi Spiers Show on BBC Radio Devon gave a platform to a homeopath who is touting sugar pills as a malaria cure in East Africa: BBC Devon Promotes Dangerously Deluded HIV Homeopaths in Africa.

I complained about the uncritical nature of this programme to Mark Grinnell, the Managing Editor of BBC Radio Devon, but was fobbed off with a stock reply. I then submitted a complaint via the BBC Complaints web page, and received another stock reply. I responded to this, citing their editorial guidelines, and was again fobbed off and told that I was entitled to my opinion but they had acted properly. I decided to go to the top, and emailed the Editorial Complaints Unit (ecu@bbc.co.uk) with details of where the BBC Charter and Editorial Guidelines had been breached.

Last week, I heard the result of this complaint; the substantive parts follow:
As you know, the consensus in the medical and scientific community is that there is no
reliable, peer-reviewed evidence which proves the efficacy of homeopathic preparations.
However, there were numerous occasions during the interview on which Ms Findlay said
that homeopathic remedies had been effective in treating patients with a range of medical
conditions, including knee pain, high blood pressure and depression (as well as the side-
effects of HIV medication, which was the main subject of the interview). In those
circumstances, I would have expected some sort of challenge from the interviewer, to ensure
that listeners were at least aware of the absence of scientific support for such claims.
Instead, it seemed to me that the interviewer gave the appearance of endorsing them. I note
that at one point she said:

Now we’re not going to debate the efficacy, there are many believers in homeopathy
and many non-believers but you have seen it work first-hand.


At the end of the interview, she read out a quote from Mahatma Gandhi in which he claimed
“homeopathy cures a larger percentage of cases than any other method of treatment” and
even suggested to the interviewee that “if you need to boost your energy levels I can
recommend a good homeopath not far from here”
.

I therefore don’t believe this interview met the requirements for due impartiality in relation to
what is a contested topic, and I’m upholding your complaint. A summary of my finding,
including a note of the action taken as a result, will be published on the complaints pages of
bbc.co.uk in due course, and I shall let you know when that happens.
Today the finding was published on the BBC web site:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/comp-re ... Judispiers
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Dave B
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Re: Homeopathy

#1087 Post by Dave B » July 12th, 2013, 6:15 pm

Well done, Steve! Very well done. Tenacity against patronisation always warms my heart.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Later: a bit like the judge's rationalisation for sentencing (that Alan H. linked a while ago) this sort of insight into how these people think is good intelligence for further analysis/presentation of material for complaints.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Tetenterre
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Re: Homeopathy

#1088 Post by Tetenterre » July 12th, 2013, 6:22 pm

Thanks, Dave.
Dave B wrote:Later: a bit like the judge's rationalisation for sentencing (that Alan H. linked a while ago) this sort of insight into how these people think is good intelligence for further analysis/presentation of material for complaints.
Exactly why I posted it here.
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#1089 Post by Alan H » July 12th, 2013, 6:39 pm

Excellent!

At every opportunity, we need to mention Prof Steve Jones' report for the BBC: BBC Trust - Review of impartiality and accuracy of the BBC's coverage of science
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Maria Mac
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Re: Homeopathy

#1090 Post by Maria Mac » July 12th, 2013, 7:12 pm

Fantastic result - thanks for being persistent! :clap:

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Dave B
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Re: Homeopathy

#1091 Post by Dave B » July 12th, 2013, 7:15 pm

I will read Appendix A of that with some interest. Radio 4 has a reasonable science content but whenever I look on iPlayer I can't find much real science, I don't like the dumbed down stuff by Mr May et al.

Oh, nostalgic for the good old days of a weekly shot of "Horizon"! (Other decent science progs were also available . . .)

Sorry, way OT :redface:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#1092 Post by Alan H » July 12th, 2013, 7:22 pm

Dave B wrote:I don't like the dumbed down stuff by Mr May et al.
Possibly, but it may well serve a useful purpose to bring a little bit of science to those who might never otherwise never listen or read about any.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: Homeopathy

#1093 Post by Dave B » July 12th, 2013, 7:25 pm

Alan H wrote:
Dave B wrote:I don't like the dumbed down stuff by Mr May et al.
Possibly, but it may well serve a useful purpose to bring a little bit of science to those who might never otherwise never listen or read about any.
That's true, I should not be snobbish about it! Things like the Xmas Lectures are a better format for "theatrical" science though!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Tetenterre
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Re: Homeopathy

#1094 Post by Tetenterre » July 12th, 2013, 7:42 pm

Athena wrote:Fantastic result - thanks for being persistent! :clap:
Can't help the persistence (it's the mild-ish ASD :smile: ); it sometimes pays off, it usually just gets me labelled as an irritatingly awkward sod. :D
Dave B wrote: Things like the Xmas Lectures are a better format for "theatrical" science though!
Worth remembering that the Xmas lectures are aimed at youngsters (instigated by Michael Faraday, IIRC) and, with that audience, they are very successful.
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Dave B
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Re: Homeopathy

#1095 Post by Dave B » July 12th, 2013, 7:46 pm

Betcha lots of adults watch them though! Seems the originals were quite theatrical - and aimed at adults, why can't we have some of the fun?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Tetenterre
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Re: Homeopathy

#1096 Post by Tetenterre » July 12th, 2013, 7:53 pm

Dave B wrote:Betcha lots of adults watch them though! Seems the originals were quite theatrical - and aimed at adults, why can't we have some of the fun?
Oh, I watch them avidly every year. We should have fun: all learning should be fun, as far as possible (IMNSVHO, of course).
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Re: Homeopathy

#1097 Post by jdc » July 12th, 2013, 9:17 pm

Fine work there Tetenterre.
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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#1098 Post by Alan H » July 20th, 2013, 10:50 am

Something to get your blood pressure up on a Saturday Morning...

Charles in NHS homeopathy row: Prince holds secret meeting with Health Secretary to lobby for treatment denounced by top doctors as 'witchcraft'

Prof David Colquhoun on Radio 4's Today programme this morning talking about this with the witless David Tredinnick MP. (Starts at 1h 36m.)
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: Homeopathy

#1099 Post by Dave B » July 20th, 2013, 11:36 am

I heard some of the exchange on the "Today" prog earlier and wondered where this "scientific proof" (defining "scientific" in the same manner that applies to physics, chemistry etc.) of the efficacy of homoeopathy actually is. Tredinnick is in some sort of fantasy land it seems.

Charles is a bloody nuisance who will hold things back into the last century but one if he had his way.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#1100 Post by Alan H » July 20th, 2013, 12:02 pm

Dave B wrote:Tredinnick is in some sort of fantasy land it seems.
Correct.

He believes the guff spouted by homeopathists that there are systematic reviews and meta-analyses that 'prove' homeopathy. They are misinterpreting or misunderstanding them - stupidly or otherwise.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Re: Homeopathy

#1101 Post by Alan H » July 21st, 2013, 2:08 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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