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Uploading the mind from the brain to a computer

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animist
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Re: Uploading the mind from the brain to a computer

#41 Post by animist » January 17th, 2015, 8:32 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

no disrespect Compo but, having read some of this thread several times over, I have no idea what you really mean. Even if one could upload the immediately present contents of one's mind, that would be just that - some simulacrum of conscious and subconscious thoughts, memories, drives and urges in digitised form, whatever that might be. But the mind (and the brain and body behind it) is an ever-changing dynamo which interacts with its non-computer environment. I don't see how in principle any supposed upload could hope to replicate all this. We live and die, but computers do not live, and do not die in the way that we do.

Compassionist
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Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Uploading the mind from the brain to a computer

#42 Post by Compassionist » January 17th, 2015, 9:05 pm

animist wrote:no disrespect Compo but, having read some of this thread several times over, I have no idea what you really mean. Even if one could upload the immediately present contents of one's mind, that would be just that - some simulacrum of conscious and subconscious thoughts, memories, drives and urges in digitised form, whatever that might be. But the mind (and the brain and body behind it) is an ever-changing dynamo which interacts with its non-computer environment. I don't see how in principle any supposed upload could hope to replicate all this. We live and die, but computers do not live, and do not die in the way that we do.
Uploading the mind from the brain to a computer is currently fictitious - we obviously don't yet have the technology to transfer our sentience, memories and personality into a computer. This may or may not be possible in the future. Does this clarify what I mean?

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Dave B
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Re: Uploading the mind from the brain to a computer

#43 Post by Dave B » January 17th, 2015, 10:32 pm

Compassionist wrote:
animist wrote:no disrespect Compo but, having read some of this thread several times over, I have no idea what you really mean. Even if one could upload the immediately present contents of one's mind, that would be just that - some simulacrum of conscious and subconscious thoughts, memories, drives and urges in digitised form, whatever that might be. But the mind (and the brain and body behind it) is an ever-changing dynamo which interacts with its non-computer environment. I don't see how in principle any supposed upload could hope to replicate all this. We live and die, but computers do not live, and do not die in the way that we do.
Uploading the mind from the brain to a computer is currently fictitious - we obviously don't yet have the technology to transfer our sentience, memories and personality into a computer. This may or may not be possible in the future. Does this clarify what I mean?
There is, I believe, something called "fuzzy neural logic" that is, to a degree, self learning and self organising - bit like the human brain. That it would take a small power station, a large factory sized building and enough air conditioning for a small town to run anything like the capacity of the human brain is, of course, possibly a matter that time (and quantum/biological/molecular computers may fix!

Next - work out how to convert the data in the wet brain and then translate it into something an electronic/quantum or whatever logic system can understand and present it in such a way that is is seamless. If it is not seamless the system has not done the job.

That such will happen is probably possible at some point in the future - providing our civilisation retains enough of its knowledge and resources during the upcoming potential environmental problems :sad2:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Compassionist
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Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Uploading the mind from the brain to a computer

#44 Post by Compassionist » January 18th, 2015, 11:44 am

Dave B wrote:
Compassionist wrote:
animist wrote:no disrespect Compo but, having read some of this thread several times over, I have no idea what you really mean. Even if one could upload the immediately present contents of one's mind, that would be just that - some simulacrum of conscious and subconscious thoughts, memories, drives and urges in digitised form, whatever that might be. But the mind (and the brain and body behind it) is an ever-changing dynamo which interacts with its non-computer environment. I don't see how in principle any supposed upload could hope to replicate all this. We live and die, but computers do not live, and do not die in the way that we do.
Uploading the mind from the brain to a computer is currently fictitious - we obviously don't yet have the technology to transfer our sentience, memories and personality into a computer. This may or may not be possible in the future. Does this clarify what I mean?
There is, I believe, something called "fuzzy neural logic" that is, to a degree, self learning and self organising - bit like the human brain. That it would take a small power station, a large factory sized building and enough air conditioning for a small town to run anything like the capacity of the human brain is, of course, possibly a matter that time (and quantum/biological/molecular computers may fix!

Next - work out how to convert the data in the wet brain and then translate it into something an electronic/quantum or whatever logic system can understand and present it in such a way that is is seamless. If it is not seamless the system has not done the job.

That such will happen is probably possible at some point in the future - providing our civilisation retains enough of its knowledge and resources during the upcoming potential environmental problems :sad2:
I don't know if data conversion from wetware to hardware and back would work in practice. Also, isn't sentience more than just sensory inputs and memories? Can sentience be moved from wetware to hardware? I don't know. If we compare 1015 with 2015 we find that the periods are immensely different. The scientific and technological breakthroughs of the last 1000 years were unimaginable back in 1015. How will things be in 3015? Will humanity blow itself up? Will we create an amazing utopia? I wish I had a time machine and could find out.

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Dave B
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Re: Uploading the mind from the brain to a computer

#45 Post by Dave B » January 18th, 2015, 11:53 am

Compassionist wrote: If we compare 1015 with 2015 we find that the periods are immensely different. The scientific and technological breakthroughs of the last 1000 years were unimaginable back in 1015. How will things be in 3015? Will humanity blow itself up? Will we create an amazing utopia? I wish I had a time machine and could find out.
Yup, grant you that, since the present curve of discovery and development is just about exponential as we learn more we will learn even more - so it goes on. I did suggest that we have to survive the next century or so in a way that means that we can continue to expend lots of lolly, time and resources in what, presently, looks like near blue-sky science.

But this is only a thought exercise - I am currently reading a book on Einstein's life in which his "thought experiments" are much mentioned. My problem is, though I can see things in 3D in my mind, do things to them, see how that changes other things . . . I am rather pragmatically minded, I have to stay just a bit earthed and look at a big picture.

That why I will never be an artist!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

Compassionist
Posts: 3523
Joined: July 14th, 2007, 8:38 am

Re: Uploading the mind from the brain to a computer

#46 Post by Compassionist » January 19th, 2015, 10:05 pm

Dave B wrote:
Compassionist wrote: If we compare 1015 with 2015 we find that the periods are immensely different. The scientific and technological breakthroughs of the last 1000 years were unimaginable back in 1015. How will things be in 3015? Will humanity blow itself up? Will we create an amazing utopia? I wish I had a time machine and could find out.
Yup, grant you that, since the present curve of discovery and development is just about exponential as we learn more we will learn even more - so it goes on. I did suggest that we have to survive the next century or so in a way that means that we can continue to expend lots of lolly, time and resources in what, presently, looks like near blue-sky science.

But this is only a thought exercise - I am currently reading a book on Einstein's life in which his "thought experiments" are much mentioned. My problem is, though I can see things in 3D in my mind, do things to them, see how that changes other things . . . I am rather pragmatically minded, I have to stay just a bit earthed and look at a big picture.

That why I will never be an artist!
I am prone to fantasy hence all this musings!

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