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Grexit?

...on serious topics that don't fit anywhere else at present.
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Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Grexit?

#21 Post by Nick » July 3rd, 2015, 7:29 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

So, Thundril, what do you make of the articles you have highlighted? :)

thundril
Posts: 3607
Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: Grexit?

#22 Post by thundril » July 3rd, 2015, 7:59 pm

Nick wrote:So, Thundril, what do you make of the articles you have highlighted? :)
Have given it much thought, and will get back when I've given it some more. But just now I'm off to a folky jazzy thing at the local.

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Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: Grexit?

#23 Post by Altfish » July 5th, 2015, 6:39 pm

First exit polls are predicting a NO vote :retreat:

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Grexit?

#24 Post by Alan H » July 5th, 2015, 6:58 pm

This would appear to be the official Greek Ministry of the Interior website with the actual results so far.

No: 60%
Yes: 40%
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Grexit?

#25 Post by Alan H » July 5th, 2015, 9:41 pm

Paul Mason on the impending 'No' win for Syriza:



And on the rise and rise of Syriza:

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Grexit?

#26 Post by Alan H » July 6th, 2015, 12:54 am

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Grexit?

#27 Post by Alan H » July 6th, 2015, 1:06 am

2015-07-06_01h05_47.png
2015-07-06_01h05_47.png (223.68 KiB) Viewed 2032 times
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: Grexit?

#28 Post by Fia » July 6th, 2015, 5:19 pm

:pointlaugh: :pointlaugh:

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Grexit?

#29 Post by Nick » July 6th, 2015, 6:26 pm

Amusing, yes, but Greeks can't vote for someone else to pick up the tab. As Reagan said, in altogether happier circumstances, you aint seen nothin' yet. Stand by for another 25% drop in GDP, humanitarian aid to Greeks, and people in Europe dying for lack of medicines. The far left (and far right) have got hold of Greece. By promising what they can't deliver. (Like the SNP). They have been warned, over and over and over again. But they won't listen.

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anaconda
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Joined: June 18th, 2009, 11:07 pm

Re: Grexit?

#30 Post by anaconda » July 6th, 2015, 7:06 pm

It's reasonable given recent history not to trust large financial institutions, but here's a view on Greece from Chris Kanthan. Some of it may be familiar but it's difficult, as ever with issues such as these, to formulate a clear view, mainly due to the politics of power rather than anything financial.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/ ... I.facebook
John

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Grexit?

#31 Post by Nick » July 6th, 2015, 8:53 pm

Seriously, Anaconda? Seriously?

Have you not checked out the devastating critique from Economists for Hollywood? No? Shame on you!! :wink:

And who, the fuck, is Chris Kanthan?

He doesn't even come up on Google.

And I do. Yup. Even me. :wink:

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anaconda
Posts: 219
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 11:07 pm

Re: Grexit?

#32 Post by anaconda » July 7th, 2015, 5:47 am

Yes.....and your Google needs a service by the looks of it.

I see your blinkers are still fitted Nick.... there are other similar articles around, but why see bigger social or political themes when there's mainstream economics to provide a solution.

Perhaps you could provide us with a 'Nick approved ' list of economists and journalists so we may restrict our reading solely to those few who are sufficiently enlightened to offer the same view as you?
John

thundril
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Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: Grexit?

#33 Post by thundril » July 7th, 2015, 12:05 pm

Nick wrote:Seriously, Anaconda? Seriously?

. . .

And who, the fuck, is Chris Kanthan?

He doesn't even come up on Google.
Classic ad hominem fallacy. (Technically, that's the error of thinking a criticism of the messenger counts as a valid response to the message.) Never mind who (the fuck or otherwise) the author is. The fact that you don't know indicates something about the extent of your knowledge, and nothing else.
We are offered an article to critique. What do you think of it?
Are any of the facts cited in the article actually wrong? Which ones? How are they wrong?

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Grexit?

#34 Post by Nick » July 7th, 2015, 5:32 pm

thundril wrote:
Nick wrote:Seriously, Anaconda? Seriously?

. . .

And who, the fuck, is Chris Kanthan?

He doesn't even come up on Google.
Classic ad hominem fallacy. (Technically, that's the error of thinking a criticism of the messenger counts as a valid response to the message.) Never mind who (the fuck or otherwise) the author is. The fact that you don't know indicates something about the extent of your knowledge, and nothing else.
We are offered an article to critique. What do you think of it?
Are any of the facts cited in the article actually wrong? Which ones? How are they wrong?
Yup, I think I rather let my frustration show. He may be a nice guy, for all I know. But his arguments make no sense.

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Altfish
Posts: 1821
Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: Grexit?

#35 Post by Altfish » July 7th, 2015, 5:37 pm

Come on Nick, that's not like you. Why do they make no sense?

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Grexit?

#36 Post by Nick » July 7th, 2015, 5:43 pm

Greece - What You Are Not Being Told by the Media
Is this because the mainstream media don't publish ridiculous conspiracy theories?
According to mainstream media, the current economic crisis in Greece is due to the government spending too much money on its people that it went broke.
Absolutely right. Budget deficit of 15% pa.
This claim however, is a lie. It was the banks that wrecked the country so oligarchs and international corporations could benefit.
Oh perleeease. Banks make money by losing so much that they need to be bailed out? Yeah, that'll work as a great strategy.

The man's an idiot.

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Grexit?

#37 Post by Nick » July 7th, 2015, 5:45 pm

Altfish wrote:Come on Nick, that's not like you. Why do they make no sense?
Thee! That better? I type as fast as my little fat fingers can manage! :D

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anaconda
Posts: 219
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Re: Grexit?

#38 Post by anaconda » July 7th, 2015, 6:14 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OLowusrkNA


On a related theme from the admirable Owen Jones.
John

thundril
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Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: Grexit?

#39 Post by thundril » July 7th, 2015, 6:46 pm

This month's Coolest dude in Europe (official) is a mathematician and economist. How often does that happen?

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Altfish
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Joined: March 26th, 2012, 8:46 am

Re: Grexit?

#40 Post by Altfish » July 7th, 2015, 6:53 pm

Interesting stuff on WW2 reparations...

In 1942, the Greek Central Bank was forced by the occupying Nazi regime to loan 476 million Reichsmarks at 0% interest to Nazi Germany. In 1960, Greece accepted 115 million Marks as compensation for Nazi crimes. Nevertheless, past Greek governments have insisted that this was only a down-payment, not complete reparations. In 1990, immediately prior to German reunification, West Germany and East Germany signed the Two Plus Four Agreement with the former Allied countries of the United States, Great Britain, France, and the Soviet Union. Since that time, Germany has insisted that all matters concerning World War II, including further reparations to Greece, are closed because Germany officially surrendered to the Allies and to no other parties, including Greece. On Sunday, February 8, 2015, the Greek Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras appeared in front of the Greek parliament and officially demanded that Germany pay further reparations to Greece. On April 6, 2015, Greece demanded Germany pay it the equivalent of $303 billion in reparations for the war. Germany replied that the reparations issue was resolved in 1990

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Grexit?

#41 Post by Alan H » July 7th, 2015, 7:05 pm

thundril wrote:This month's Coolest dude in Europe (official) is a mathematician and economist. How often does that happen?
And what do we have? George Gideon Oliver Osborne with a 2.1 BA degree in Modern History.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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