animist wrote: Nick, I have to say that you surprise me with your stance on the vote.
I wouldn't want to be entirely predictable, animist!
I think you are somewhat a economaniac:
I tend to think that economics matters, that's all. And I don't mean money. I mean how we can achieve the things we want to achieve with the resources we have.
you pounce on some economic feature of an issue and then magnify it.
Can one not take an example without pouncing? And I don't think the single currency is just "some economic feature". It strikes me as rather more relevant and important than that.
The UK ain't in the Eurozone, so, even assuming you are right when you talk about the latter, so what?
So, more than half of the EU are stuck in a dysfunctional currency union, which has thrown millions out of work. And the EU has no plan how to address this issue, except by inflicting pain on the most disadvantaged. Whatever happens, the present arrangements aren't working. There are two options: either further integration, which means less democracy, less accountability, less choice, or rolling back the supra-state to increase democracy accountability and choice, and reduce the stresses of the current system. To say that this is irrelevant to the UK is crazy. Do we want to be part of an organisation which has a political agenda which has produced such horrendous results. And don't forget, this is a dynamic situation, not a static one. Their direction of travel, at the moment, is to centralise power away from people.
A parallel example would be the attitude of the Greens. Never mind whether we are in favour of less pollution, or more paternity rights, the Greens are endorsing EU membership explicitly because they think that the democracy in this country might produce an answer they don't like. And yet, just suppose the EU came to adopt a policy they don't like, they'd be the first to bleat about talk of accountability and democracy.
Alan H is dead right. It is up to the Brexiters to indicate some clear advantage of leaving this strange organisation, and I think that most of these Brexiters also merit another X - that of xenophobia. Better the devil you know: I am pretty sure that this will "inspire" (scarcely the mot juste, but still, it will motivate) yer average apathetic Brit voter when the time comes (three months tomorrow)
Oh, come, come! On that basis we should stick with the Tories, as Labour have shown no clear advantage in voting for them. And as a reposte to your xenophobic jibe, we might as well accuse the left of greed and envy for other people's assets. Not a good basis for discussion.