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sex education in schools

For discussions related to education and educational institutions.
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getreal
Posts: 4354
Joined: November 20th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Re: sex education in schools

#41 Post by getreal » February 27th, 2010, 7:21 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

getting back to born2wonder and Marian's posts regarding getting pregnant teens in to speak to pupils, this will not work for (possibly) the majority of pupils who get pregnant at an early stage. These girls do so on purpose. They actually want to be mothers. Their lives can be pretty bleak, some are from second and even third generation single families and poverty is a huge feature of their lives. It's very sad.

Someone once said (I think it was someone on another forum) that the best contraception for a young girl was ambition. It's difficult to think that you may be able to pursue your love of languages, science, music, hairdressing, cake decorating or whatever, if you have no role models and all the adults you know are unemployed and live on benifits.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: sex education in schools

#42 Post by Marian » February 28th, 2010, 12:08 pm

born2wonder wrote: I don't know, you idea sounds great though but you know what so teenagers are like and many are difficult (you say left they say right you say black they say white)
But getting a teen mum so come into a school may be hard
Yeah, I remember being a teenager...oppositional, defiant and full of hormones. I doubt one solution will fit everyone but even if we encourage at least one person to wait, that can't be all bad.
Do you think a discussion format with supervision by the teacher would work better?
What would make it difficult to bring in a teen mum?

getreal wrote:getting back to born2wonder and Marian's posts regarding getting pregnant teens in to speak to pupils, this will not work for (possibly) the majority of pupils who get pregnant at an early stage. These girls do so on purpose. They actually want to be mothers. Their lives can be pretty bleak, some are from second and even third generation single families and poverty is a huge feature of their lives. It's very sad.
What's tragic is not being able to see any other options except getting pregnant. I don't doubt there are some who might want to be mothers and plan accordingly but as I understand it, the more significant percentage are accidental.

Listen to the 4min audio interview about 3/4 down the page. Their attitudes are revealing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7911684.stm

Article touches on issues such as: improper use of contraception, if any were used; being pressured into sex; low aspirations; age of fathers who impregnated teens (this does not surprise me), social background of teen mothers.
http://www.articleblast.com/Kids_and_Te ... n_England/

getreal wrote:Someone once said (I think it was someone on another forum) that the best contraception for a young girl was ambition. It's difficult to think that you may be able to pursue your love of languages, science, music, hairdressing, cake decorating or whatever, if you have no role models and all the adults you know are unemployed and live on benifits.
That's party true but it leaves the whole emphasis on the girl to avoid getting pregnant while as I understand it, there still needs to be a partner willing to engage in sexual activity.
I'm oh-so-tired of the men falling silently into the shadows on this issue. I have no doubt there are some decent men who step up to the plate but for the most part, I just see girls and their babies.

The whole teen pregnancy thing is a societal problem and I see the bigger solution as involving teaching girls that saying 'No' is a better option (and not just to sex-we often unwittingly teach our girl children to 'people please' instead of carefully assessing a situation) We need to teach our boys that girls are whole people with wants/needs, not merely objects for their gratification and that pressuring girls for sex is not ok.

*soapbox now open for anyone else to have a go*
Transformative fire...

born2wonder
Posts: 44
Joined: December 1st, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: sex education in schools

#43 Post by born2wonder » February 28th, 2010, 4:38 pm

Getreal believe it or not but I think in some cases this is true.
think about it.
If you were a teenage girl with no qualifications what would you do.
Get pregnant then get a house from social benefits and numerious other "treats" that society will pay for while you play havoc on the DSS by using your offspring as a reason for you absurd laziness.

Although not in all cases our family friends daughter is due to give birth in may and is during her second year at university. She obviously was not trying to get pregnant .
Verily ye must Knoweth this:
"The most erroneous deed a person can do is waste their potential"
~ ME

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: sex education in schools

#44 Post by Marian » February 28th, 2010, 5:53 pm

born2wonder wrote:Getreal believe it or not but I think in some cases this is true.
think about it.
If you were a teenage girl with no qualifications what would you do.
Get pregnant then get a house from social benefits and numerious other "treats" that society will pay for while you play havoc on the DSS by using your offspring as a reason for you absurd laziness.

Although not in all cases our family friends daughter is due to give birth in may and is during her second year at university. She obviously was not trying to get pregnant .
Hey, wait a minute here. Did you not read my post and the link attached? Perhaps I should expand further. Girls in this society are still encouraged to be mommies first, even the ones in uni. In fact, they are encouraged to reach the pinnacle of achievement: get an education, find a man and have babies not necessarily in that order although I understand that's preferred.
Are you assuming because she was in uni that she didn't mean to get pregnant but if you're poor, you do? As far as I can tell, you still get pregnant by having sex whether you're poor or not. (And don't even think of mentioning abstinence because that's not what I'm getting at)
If I were feeling particularly mean, I suppose I could say that the daughter in uni was too lazy to use BC or too busy getting it on instead of studying. C'mon, man.

Here are list of risk factors for teen pregnancy. Your friend's daughter is not a teenager so these probably don't apply. Taken from: http://pregnancychildbirth.suite101.com ... ed_kingdom

Research has shown that there are several risk factors for teenage pregnancy in young women.

* Poverty. According to the Brook Advisory Centres’ website, poverty is a key risk factor for teenage pregnancy. Girls from families with a low level of education (unskilled manual) are ten times more likely to become teenage moms than girls from professional backgrounds. They are also far less likely to have an abortion if they do become pregnant.
* Leaving Care. Children in and leaving care are especially at risk of becoming pregnant. In fact, a quarter of care leavers have had a child by the age of 16 and almost half are mothers within 18-24 months of leaving care, according to Brook’s website.
* Low educational achievement. Low educational achievement is another major risk factor for teenage parenthood. The average of teenage mothers without a school leaving certificate is several times that of the national average for girls of the same age.
* Age discrepancy. Teenage girls in relationships with adult men are particularly likely to become pregnant when compared to teenage girls in relationships with boys their own age.

Could you please direct me to where it says that a teen mother gets a house? Oh, you mean council flats. Would anyone really want to have a child there if they could be as well off as you claim they are? Something is not quite right...
Transformative fire...

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getreal
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Re: sex education in schools

#45 Post by getreal » February 28th, 2010, 10:57 pm

Poverty. According to the Brook Advisory Centres’ website, poverty is a key risk factor for teenage pregnancy. Girls from families with a low level of education (unskilled manual) are ten times more likely to become teenage moms than girls from professional backgrounds. They are also far less likely to have an abortion if they do become pregnant.
I would say this is the main factor in girls becoming pregnant when unsuported in their teens. It is NOT because they don't know about contraception. It is NOT because their contraception has failed.

For a while I worked with groups of lone parents (all mothers) and was extremely shocked to see their complete acceptance of teenage pregnancy. I worked with women mostly aged mid 20s to early 40s in very deprived areas of Glasgow. A substantial proportion of them were grandmothers and proud to tell you that their unsupported, teenage (sometimes as young as 14) daughters were pregnant/had children. It was a whole diffenent attitude.

I have also worked in gynaegology ward in a large teaching hospital and my personal experience of women seeking abortions confirms what Marian has posted. They were mostly middle class, educated young women.

I don't buy the "getting pregnent to get a house" claim either. For a start being pregnant does not entitle you to a house and secondly, they almost always seem to assume they will stay with their own mums-- they then get all the practical and moral support they want.

When you a'int got nuthin' a baby is at least somethin'
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

born2wonder
Posts: 44
Joined: December 1st, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: sex education in schools

#46 Post by born2wonder » March 1st, 2010, 6:37 pm

Is it me or do you americans/ canadians always use rhetoric and sarcasm in you answers.

Why on earth(not God's Green Earth) would a 19 year old want to get pregnant in the middle of university knowing that she would have to leave the course.
It defies logic to me that you would purposely destroy your live plans.

Here's some local news from where I live that I have just been told by my twin brother while writing the "19 year old part"

There a girl in my school in s2 called D.B 13 years old (not mentioning her name) and she is three weeks pregnant and my brother ricky's friend scott (14 years old) is the dad in fact we (me and ricky )are related to scott as his gran is my granddads sister anyway she is bricking it (slang) very scared and is going to have an abortion.
I will set up a link to D.B bebo page if you don't believe me.
Verily ye must Knoweth this:
"The most erroneous deed a person can do is waste their potential"
~ ME

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getreal
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Re: sex education in schools

#47 Post by getreal » March 1st, 2010, 11:00 pm

I don't know if you are reffering to my post born2wonder, but I actually live in the same country as you :) I didn't mean to offend you and I'm sorry if I have. My point is that in my opinion, a large proportion of teenage pregnancies do not occur because the girl did not know about, or was unable to access, contraception.

As far as the girl at university is concerned, I'm sure she did not plan it--she clearly had other plans for her life.

As for the 13 year old you have mentioned-that sounds like ignorance on the part of both her and whoever was the father. She clearly does not want to have a child and is making a decision not to continue with her pregnancy. Again, she clearly has other plans for her life.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

Marian
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Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: sex education in schools

#48 Post by Marian » March 2nd, 2010, 3:02 am

born2wonder wrote:Is it me or do you americans/ canadians always use rhetoric and sarcasm in you answers.
You've lost me. I didn't see where I was being sarcastic or rhetorical (if you mean it as: insincere). Please explain. Examples would help.
born2wonder wrote:Why on earth(not God's Green Earth) would a 19 year old want to get pregnant in the middle of university knowing that she would have to leave the course.
It defies logic to me that you would purposely destroy your live plans.
There's plenty of girls who get pregnant in uni and either keep the baby, give it up or have an abortion. Why would she have to leave the course?
The point is just because you've got money to go to uni doesn't mean you can't get pregnant on purpose. I'm not saying she did but anything is possible. If the father of the child comes from a good family, with good prospects and money, why the hell not?
Sadly, when it comes to sex, logic almost never applies for these reasons: If you are having sex, you can get pregnant. Pure and simple. If you take precautions, you can still get pregnant. If logic applied, I'd say why take the chance at all? Why do people take a chance? They get caught up in the moment or they convince themselves it can't happen to them. Logic hasn't been applied. See what I mean?
born2wonder wrote:There a girl in my school in s2 called D.B 13 years old (not mentioning her name) and she is three weeks pregnant and my brother ricky's friend scott (14 years old) is the dad in fact we (me and ricky )are related to scott as his gran is my granddads sister anyway she is bricking it (slang) very scared and is going to have an abortion.
I will set up a link to D.B bebo page if you don't believe me.
I hope Scott is accompanying her to said abortion. He ought to see what she has to go through at least emotionally. Even if you don't want the baby, it's a horrible thing. I believe you so no need for the link.

I'm not sure where we went wrong in our posts but in re-reading things, I think the issue had to do with you saying that the girl with no chances is going to get pregnant purposely...and use her child to manipulate and stay lazy. These are huge assumptions so I called you on it. Sorry if I went overboard. Being intense is my default mode. I'll try to tone it down.
Transformative fire...

born2wonder
Posts: 44
Joined: December 1st, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: sex education in schools

#49 Post by born2wonder » March 3rd, 2010, 7:44 am

"Could you please direct me to where it says that a teen mother gets a house? Oh, you mean council flats. Would anyone really want to have a child there if they could be as well off as you claim they are? Something is not quite right..."

This is rhetoric isn't it, I don't need to answer the question.
And not they are not always council flat depending on the amount of children you may get a better house and more benefits.

As regarding to our family friend she needs to be a mother, How will look after it because I can't see a baby screaming down a lecture hall and her having the energy to attend university after being up all night with the baby.
I really don't understand why girls make it difficult for themselves by getting pregnant in uni.
Verily ye must Knoweth this:
"The most erroneous deed a person can do is waste their potential"
~ ME

born2wonder
Posts: 44
Joined: December 1st, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: sex education in schools

#50 Post by born2wonder » March 3rd, 2010, 7:52 am

getreal wrote:I don't know if you are reffering to my post born2wonder, but I actually live in the same country as you :) I didn't mean to offend you and I'm sorry if I have. My point is that in my opinion, a large proportion of teenage pregnancies do not occur because the girl did not know about, or was unable to access, contraception.

As far as the girl at university is concerned, I'm sure she did not plan it--she clearly had other plans for her life.

As for the 13 year old you have mentioned-that sounds like ignorance on the part of both her and whoever was the father. She clearly does not want to have a child and is making a decision not to continue with her pregnancy. Again, she clearly has other plans for her life.
I was'nt referring to your post and it didn't offend me in the least.

However I am sure you would agree with me that the DSS and the housing department would not see a baby on the streets.
Although I think I am beginning to understand what you meant in your last posts.
Verily ye must Knoweth this:
"The most erroneous deed a person can do is waste their potential"
~ ME

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: sex education in schools

#51 Post by Marian » March 3rd, 2010, 5:15 pm

Marian wrote:"Could you please direct me to where it says that a teen mother gets a house? Oh, you mean council flats. Would anyone really want to have a child there if they could be as well off as you claim they are? Something is not quite right..."
born2wonder wrote:This is rhetoric isn't it, I don't need to answer the question.
And not they are not always council flat depending on the amount of children you may get a better house and more benefits.
No, it wasn't rhetorical. It was an honest question although perhaps asked with a bit of flippancy :wink: I really wanted to know via web-site etc about housing for teen mothers and benefit amounts. Over here, we don't have that kind of thing. There is subsidized housing but the wait-list is 10 years. If they don't have somewhere to stay, they go off to the teen hostel for girls with babies. No luxuries here. A mom may get benefits but they are poverty-level.
born2wonder wrote:As regarding to our family friend she needs to be a mother, How will look after it because I can't see a baby screaming down a lecture hall and her having the energy to attend university after being up all night with the baby.
I really don't understand why girls make it difficult for themselves by getting pregnant in uni.
[/quote]
Lots and lots of mothers have babies, take the first 3-6 months off and then return to work or school. Babies don't just stop crying after a few months; they can continue that for quite some time. There is daycare which takes the babies when they are very young and she goes off to school.
I think it would be very tragic if she were to cancel school altogether when there are other options.
In terms of getting themselves pregnant. It takes two to make a baby so both are responsible for her getting pregnant. I think girls are socialized to people please a great deal of the time and so they answer 'yes' when it probably would have been best to say 'no'. Heat of the moment plays a big part.
Transformative fire...

born2wonder
Posts: 44
Joined: December 1st, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: sex education in schools

#52 Post by born2wonder » March 3rd, 2010, 6:43 pm

I am sure that you would know that when a university course starts it doesn't pause for nothing there isn't an opportunty to take time off, Fortunely (I asked her today it wasn't her second but third year in uni ) this is her last year the baby is due in may and the course finishes in august so with any luck sarah should be fine.
Verily ye must Knoweth this:
"The most erroneous deed a person can do is waste their potential"
~ ME

Marian
Posts: 3985
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:25 pm

Re: sex education in schools

#53 Post by Marian » March 3rd, 2010, 7:23 pm

I hope all works out the best for mom and baby; it sure is a tougher job than making the baby in the first place :D
Transformative fire...

born2wonder
Posts: 44
Joined: December 1st, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: sex education in schools

#54 Post by born2wonder » March 3rd, 2010, 7:34 pm

I hope it does too.

Sarah is very tough she should be fine.
Verily ye must Knoweth this:
"The most erroneous deed a person can do is waste their potential"
~ ME

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