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Pedants' corner

For discussions related to education and educational institutions.
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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Pedants' corner

#21 Post by Alan H » February 5th, 2013, 10:05 am

Latest post of the previous page:

jaywhat wrote:Why do pedants only get a corner?
'Cos if we gave them a room, someone would want to lock them in and throw away the key... :D
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: Pedants' corner

#22 Post by Dave B » February 5th, 2013, 4:00 pm

:laughter:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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jaywhat
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Re: Pedants' corner

#23 Post by jaywhat » February 6th, 2013, 5:53 am

Alan H wrote:
jaywhat wrote:Why do pedants only get a corner?
'Cos if we gave them a room, someone would want to lock them in and throw away the key... :D
That would be a gross invasion of their rights and a ghastly experience. As a mild pedant, one thing I could not cope with is the continual company of a pedant.

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Tetenterre
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Re: Pedants' corner

#24 Post by Tetenterre » February 6th, 2013, 9:43 am

Alan H wrote:
jaywhat wrote:Why do pedants only get a corner?
'Cos if we gave them a room, someone would want to lock them in and throw away the key... :D
That should read:
'Cause if we gave them a room, someone would want to lock them in and throw the key away.
#1. Cos is either a lettuce or an alternative spelling of the island where Hippocrates lived and taught. The correct abbreviation of "because" is 'cause.
#2. You are throwing the key away, not throwing something called an "away". (The "do not end a sentence with a preposition" does not apply to English. It is overly pedantic.)
#3. You should not end a sentence with an ellipsis. An ellipsis should only be used to indicate an omission.
Spoiler:
Oh. I think I just made your point for you. :laughter:
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Alan H
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Re: Pedants' corner

#25 Post by Alan H » February 6th, 2013, 10:17 am

Tetenterre wrote:
Alan H wrote:
jaywhat wrote:Why do pedants only get a corner?
'Cos if we gave them a room, someone would want to lock them in and throw away the key... :D
That should read:
'Cause if we gave them a room, someone would want to lock them in and throw the key away.
#1. Cos is either a lettuce or an alternative spelling of the island where Hippocrates lived and taught. The correct abbreviation of "because" is 'cause.
#2. You are throwing the key away, not throwing something called an "away". (The "do not end a sentence with a preposition" does not apply to English. It is overly pedantic.)
#3. You should not end a sentence with an ellipsis. An ellipsis should only be used to indicate an omission.
Spoiler:
Oh. I think I just made your point for you. :laughter:
I'm away to find a room just for you...

:D
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Pedants' corner

#26 Post by Dave B » February 6th, 2013, 10:54 am

Tetenterre wrote: #3. You should not end a sentence with an ellipsis. An ellipsis should only be used to indicate an omission.
And if the omission is at the end of the sentence?

[I know, I know, I somehow developed this terrible habit of ending far too many of my sentences with ellipsis - still dunno how it happened! One or two for effect but . . .] [SHIT!]
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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jaywhat
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Re: Pedants' corner

#27 Post by jaywhat » February 6th, 2013, 11:41 am

Alan H wrote:I'm away to find a room just for you... :D
Room 101 ?

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animist
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Re: Pedants' corner

#28 Post by animist » February 6th, 2013, 1:25 pm

'Cause if we gave them a room, someone would want to lock them in and throw the key away.
but that is not a complete sentence, only a consequent clause

Maybe the pedant room needs to be an assemblage of ever-smaller boxes, one inside the other, with the worst pedants in the innermost and smallest box - a bit like the levels of Hell!

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Alan H
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Re: Pedants' corner

#29 Post by Alan H » February 6th, 2013, 1:43 pm

animist wrote:Maybe the pedant room needs to be an assemblage of ever-smaller boxes, one inside the other, with the worst pedants in the innermost and smallest box - a bit like the levels of Hell!
Please. The correct typographical element to separate two such clauses is the em dash, not a hyphen. The owners of this forum have thoughtfully provided an easy way of inserting such a character entity [---][/---] by clicking on the appropriate icon in the toolbar above the edit box. I leave it to commenters to decide whether to adopt the UK or US convention of spacing around the em dash.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Pedants' corner

#30 Post by Dave B » February 6th, 2013, 3:27 pm

How do you get that to work, Alan, all I get is the [---]HTML thingies[/---] either side of what I type.

Or with a hyphen in[---]-[/---]there or in the[---] [/---]space
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Re: Pedants' corner

#31 Post by Alan H » February 6th, 2013, 7:11 pm

Do you put anything in the middle of an em dash? NO! Just type [---][/---] and you will get a —. :)
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Pedants' corner

#32 Post by Dave B » February 6th, 2013, 7:16 pm

[---][/---]

Duh! That's too simple!



:laughter:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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imaginaryfriend
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Joined: March 1st, 2012, 3:24 am

Re: Pedants' corner

#33 Post by imaginaryfriend » February 8th, 2013, 9:42 pm

While I'm on my ranting vehicle, I wish to express my frustration at the misuse of the word "surreal" which according to my dictionary refers to "having the qualities of surrealism/bizarre" and "the irrational juxtaposition (of images)". I have heard 2 occasions on which this word was misused:
1) When a Paralympian was interviewed on Radio 4 on receiving an OBE for her efforts she described the experience as 'surreal'. Not really, you overcame your disability to achieve incredible success in your particular sport so it's no surprise that you would receive further recognition of this.
2) When Justin Welby was named the new Archbishop of Canterbury, one of his daughters described his appointment as 'surreal'. Assuming that Mr Welby has spent most of his working life within the clergy and was also shortlisted for the post, this is nothing more than expected, perhaps unexpected, or a pleasant surprise, it is far from 'surreal'.

For fear that anyone should think me snobbish or excessively pedantic, I did find one situation in modern popular culture in which the term was correctly used, when Rylan Clark, the current winner of Celebrity Big Brother labelled his experience in the Big Brother house 'surreal', I thought that it was correctly applied, as the 'celebrity' contestants in the Big Brother house were separated from their families, all media and any contact with the outside world. This I believe does concur with the notion of surrealism as it is an "irrational juxtaposition".
"We all have imaginary friends. I've just grown out of mine". Jimmy Carr.

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Pedants' corner

#34 Post by Alan H » February 8th, 2013, 10:32 pm

Some tips for writers:
2013-02-08_22h31_54.png
2013-02-08_22h31_54.png (597.56 KiB) Viewed 3739 times
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
animist
Posts: 6522
Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: Pedants' corner

#35 Post by animist » February 8th, 2013, 11:12 pm

Alan H wrote:
animist wrote:Maybe the pedant room needs to be an assemblage of ever-smaller boxes, one inside the other, with the worst pedants in the innermost and smallest box - a bit like the levels of Hell!
Please. The correct typographical element to separate two such clauses is the em dash, not a hyphen. The owners of this forum have thoughtfully provided an easy way of inserting such a character entity [---][/---] by clicking on the appropriate icon in the toolbar above the edit box. I leave it to commenters to decide whether to adopt the UK or US convention of spacing around the em dash.
fair enough[---][/---]I was forced to stop using it by my employer[---][/---]a publisher[---][/---]some years ago[---][/---]so sorry, I am sticking with the hyphen!

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animist
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Joined: July 30th, 2010, 11:36 pm

Re: Pedants' corner

#36 Post by animist » February 8th, 2013, 11:27 pm

imaginaryfriend wrote:While I'm on my ranting vehicle, I wish to express my frustration at the misuse of the word "surreal" which according to my dictionary refers to "having the qualities of surrealism/bizarre" and "the irrational juxtaposition (of images)". I have heard 2 occasions on which this word was misused:
1) When a Paralympian was interviewed on Radio 4 on receiving an OBE for her efforts she described the experience as 'surreal'. Not really, you overcame your disability to achieve incredible success in your particular sport so it's no surprise that you would receive further recognition of this.
2) When Justin Welby was named the new Archbishop of Canterbury, one of his daughters described his appointment as 'surreal'. Assuming that Mr Welby has spent most of his working life within the clergy and was also shortlisted for the post, this is nothing more than expected, perhaps unexpected, or a pleasant surprise, it is far from 'surreal'.

For fear that anyone should think me snobbish or excessively pedantic, I did find one situation in modern popular culture in which the term was correctly used, when Rylan Clark, the current winner of Celebrity Big Brother labelled his experience in the Big Brother house 'surreal', I thought that it was correctly applied, as the 'celebrity' contestants in the Big Brother house were separated from their families, all media and any contact with the outside world. This I believe does concur with the notion of surrealism as it is an "irrational juxtaposition".
this one does not bother me, I suppose because the word "surreal" would otherwise scarcely ever be used; I think it is strictly a particular movement in art and literature. But this reminds me of why words like this do get used in new ways: it is because they sound good. In the case of "surreal", what people really mean is "unreal", but "surreal" sounds better - so what? BUT one other case that is similar and does annoy me is the use of "disinterested" when what is meant is "uninterested"; the former word used to have a clearly different meaning, which was roughly "impartial", and it is a pity that the two meanings are now confused

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Alan H
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Re: Pedants' corner

#37 Post by Alan H » February 9th, 2013, 12:01 am

imaginaryfriend wrote:2) When Justin Welby was named the new Archbishop of Canterbury, one of his daughters described his appointment as 'surreal'. Assuming that Mr Welby has spent most of his working life within the clergy and was also shortlisted for the post, this is nothing more than expected, perhaps unexpected, or a pleasant surprise, it is far from 'surreal'.
The thought of the daughter of christian thinking something so worldly as being promoted as being surreal, is surreal in itself considering all the things her dad believes!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

thundril
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Joined: July 4th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Re: Pedants' corner

#38 Post by thundril » February 9th, 2013, 12:35 am

The misuse, or adaptation, of surreal is similar to the fate of other words, like 'impressionistic'.

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Dave B
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Re: Pedants' corner

#39 Post by Dave B » February 9th, 2013, 9:35 am

But if the usage of words never changed we would still be talking Shakespearean English at the best! Come to think of it that would be no bad thing in some ways - beautifully descriptive when used by The Bard.

I am not so unhappy with the change in use and meaning of words (especially if the older meaning is now considered an archaism) it is irrelevant and superfluous words that annoy me[---][/---]such as "so", like" "you know" etc. that litter the speech of BBC commentators now as well as the teenagers.

And, Alan H., that em-dash thingy actually invites one to enter something between the html - as do "URL" and "IMG" so I was only following a logical pattern there. :nod: And can you find us a tongue poking emoticon please?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Pedants' corner

#40 Post by Alan H » February 9th, 2013, 9:59 am

Dave B wrote:And, Alan H., that em-dash thingy actually invites one to enter something between the html - as do "URL" and "IMG" so I was only following a logical pattern there. :nod: And can you find us a tongue poking emoticon please?
Yeah, I know, but it was the only way I could see to do it within the confines of what the software allows. :yahbooh: :yahbooh: :yahbooh:
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Dave B
Posts: 17809
Joined: May 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

Re: Pedants' corner

#41 Post by Dave B » February 9th, 2013, 10:21 am

How did I miss :yahbooh: ?

'Sno good, I am getting past my use-by date :sad2:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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