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DIET AND CANCER

This forum is set aside for the BHA Humanist Vegetarian Group. All of Think Humanism's registered users are welcome to participate. If you wish to receive news and announcements from this group, please register with the HVG user group. See instructions near the top of the HVG forum.

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gregory
Died May 2009 R.I.P
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DIET AND CANCER

#1 Postby gregory » May 10th, 2008, 9:12 am

Just to say that if anyone has taken to soya in order to come off either milk or meat then make sure it is ORGANIC as soya contains a lot of polyestrogens. Now if the soya is organic then there are substances in the soya to counteract the polyeostrogens if it isn't organic then the polyeostrogens can cause breast cancer.

Breast cancer is usually associated with women but men can get it too.
There'll be blue birds over
The white cliffs of Dover

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Edward Hawkins
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#2 Postby Edward Hawkins » May 11th, 2008, 8:36 pm

This is the first time that I have heard this. Do you have some references for the research which proves this?

Edward

Maria Mac
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#3 Postby Maria Mac » May 12th, 2008, 11:34 am

Gregory presumably means phytoestrogens. I found a couple of links:

http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/FactShe ... .phyto.cfm

http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/con ... l/57/5/260

From the first source:

Phytoestrogens are estrogen-like chemicals found in plant foods such as beans, seeds, and grains. Foods made from soybeans have some of the highest levels of phytoestrogens and have been studied the most. In spite of initial optimism, it is not clear whether eating foods rich in phytoestrogens decreases breast cancer risk. This is an active area of research with much work needed to resolve this issue. This fact sheet presents the most current information and indicates where more research would be helpful.

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Edward Hawkins
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#4 Postby Edward Hawkins » May 12th, 2008, 8:30 pm

Thanks Maria. I am happy to carry on drinking soya milk and eating soya products.

clayto
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#5 Postby clayto » May 24th, 2008, 3:53 pm

We are 'experimenting' with soya milk and cheese. The latter in particular I find almost uneatable, even the smell can be offputting but I sill hope to find something acceptable. We are quite happy with soya yogs, cream and many other soya foodstuffs.

Chris
clayto

Occam
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#6 Postby Occam » June 9th, 2008, 10:27 pm

I recall a few years ago, seeing an article in a science news letter that feeding children significant amounts of soy products, which contain phyto-estrogenic compounds, tends to lower the testosterone level of male children. I don't know if it has any significant results, but I also recall a synthetic chemical called diethyl stilbesterol, which had estrogenic properties, and was used in the 1950's and '60's to reduce the incidence of miscarriages. It was later found that a) it didn't work, and b) it caused birth defects in the genetalia of the fetuses - sterility in females and reduced testosterone levels and external genetalia size of males.

I prefer getting much of my protein from legumes. While I do eat a moderate amount of tofu, I don't have to worry since I'm 77 and have had radiation for prostate cancer. I believe the term is post-sexual. :laughter:

Occam

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Alan H
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#7 Postby Alan H » June 11th, 2008, 10:38 pm

clayto wrote:We are 'experimenting' with soya milk and cheese. The latter in particular I find almost uneatable, even the smell can be offputting but I sill hope to find something acceptable. We are quite happy with soya yogs, cream and many other soya foodstuffs.

Chris
Some soya milk is OK, but I've given up trying to find any decent soya cheese, although I'm sure I rely too much on dairy products. My one failing is parmesan - the plastic veggie stuff is disgusting!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

clayto
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#8 Postby clayto » June 12th, 2008, 11:52 am

Why is it, do you think, that there is such a problem with soya cheese when other soya prodcts are OK (taste wise)?

Chris
clayto

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Emma Woolgatherer
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#9 Postby Emma Woolgatherer » June 12th, 2008, 12:37 pm

clayto wrote:Why is it, do you think, that there is such a problem with soya cheese when other soya prodcts are OK (taste wise)?
Because real cheese is an ancient food, and making it is an ancient skill, involving acidification with bacterial cultures and coagulation with enzymes and other mysterious processes. The earliest cheeses are thought to have been quite sour and salty. Cheese-makers have had thousands of years to improve on them. The most disgusting cheeses have died out. We're left with the ones that taste best. Cheese has evolved by something akin to natural selection.

Unlike soya yoghurt and soft cheese, hard soya cheeses are not simply versions of real cheese made with soya milk instead of cow's milk or sheep's milk or goat's milk, using traditional methods. Soya milk, being fairly low in fat, and very low in saturated fat, is not suitable for such a process. I don't know whether it's possible to make cheese in the traditional method from other plant products, but if it is, I suspect it would take a big capital investment to research suitable ingredients and methods and to set up a factory to manufacture that kind of cheese, and the market isn't large enough to justify that investment.

So vegan cheeses are just modern processed foods, using modern techniques and ingredients, including gelling agents and emulsifiers and artificial flavours. They're made very quickly, on a very small scale. They sell in sufficient quantities, I suppose because they're salty and high in fat, and presumably there are enough consumers who are avoiding dairy, for various reasons, for whom that's good enough. Or maybe there are enough people willing to try these things just once!

Emma

P.S. Edited to add: "It has been found that no satisfactory product could be obtained from soy milk by conventional cheese-making processes (Obara, T., 1968; Basic investigations on the development of foods from enzymatically treated soybean protein concentrates to increase use of United States soybeans in Japan. U.S. Dept. Agr., Final Technical Report PL 480 Project UR-A11(40)26). Obara therefore suggested to treat the curd obtained by salt precipitation of soy milk with proteolytic enzymes before inoculating with Streptococcus cremoris and Streptococcus lactis. Because of the considerable number of operational steps, this process never gained interest amongst soy milk manufacturers." (Soy milk fermentation process, European Patent EP0521331, patent filed 1992). See also Soybeans: Chemistry, Technology, and Utilization, by KeShun Liu, pages 419-21.

clayto
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#10 Postby clayto » June 14th, 2008, 1:50 pm

A very interesting response! We have found some 'soya cheese slices' which were OK.

Are you sure all the horrible cheeses have been discarded over the years, eliminated by 'natural selection'? It is interesting how much human 'tastes' differ between individuals and cultures.

Chris
clayto

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Alan H
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#11 Postby Alan H » June 15th, 2008, 11:23 am

Emma W wrote:...making it is an ancient skill, involving acidification with bacterial cultures and coagulation with enzymes and other mysterious processes.
Yeuch! You've put me right of it now.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

lesley
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#12 Postby lesley » December 23rd, 2008, 10:37 am

My sister had breast cancer in 03 she under went the surgery and chemo treatments and was cancer free, so she thought she requested a PET scan as she works at the Cleveland Clinic and knows that they are very good at finding cancer cells. Her scan came back with finding a small cell in her lung; she had breast cancer in the right breast very aggressive type and now a spot in her left Lung she does not smoke. Does anyone have and information on this type of cancer?

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Alan H
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#13 Postby Alan H » December 23rd, 2008, 10:49 am

lesley

Welcome to our forum.

I'm sorry to hear about your sister. I don't think anyone here is particularly qualified to give any advice on it. I suggest you really need to talk to a local specialist — presumably her doctor will be able to advise her on the best course of action?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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getreal
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#14 Postby getreal » December 23rd, 2008, 5:24 pm

I stopped eating soya products partly because I found them either tasteless or vile tasting and also because I believed the increase of soy production was harming the enviornment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... redspecies

However, I only know this from articles in newspapers and on the radio.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

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Emma Woolgatherer
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#15 Postby Emma Woolgatherer » December 23rd, 2008, 6:34 pm

getreal wrote:I stopped eating soya products partly because I found them either tasteless or vile tasting and also because I believed the increase of soy production was harming the enviornment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... redspecies

However, I only know this from articles in newspapers and on the radio.
Most (about 93 per cent, I've read) of the soya beans that are grown worldwide are crushed to produce oil and meal. The meal goes to feed livestock, and the oil is the world's most widely used edible oil, and crops up in all sorts of things, like salad dressings and mayonnaise and sauces and margarines and breads and biscuits and crisps. (The oil is also used in soaps, inks, paints, varnishes, resins, plastics and biodiesel.) Only a small proportion (about 7 per cent) of soya is consumed as tofu or meat substitutes. And given the protein conversion ratios — you need to feed 3 kg of soya or grain to get 1 kg of chicken meat or 1 kg of eggs; 4 kg to get 1 kg of turkey; 6 kg to get 1 kg of pork; 10 kg to get 1 kg of cheese; and 16 kg to get 1 kg of beef — a meat-eater is likely to consume more soya indirectly than a tofu-loving vegan would be consuming directly, unless that meat-eater gets his or her protein exclusively from free-range livestock and unfarmed fish, like Alan C. :D

Emma

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Alan H
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#16 Postby Alan H » December 23rd, 2008, 7:17 pm

Emma Woolgatherer wrote:...unfarmed fish, like Alan C. :D
Emma! Alan is nothing like an unfarmed fish. Apologise immediately! :D
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan C.
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#17 Postby Alan C. » December 23rd, 2008, 7:52 pm

Alan H wrote:
Emma Woolgatherer wrote:...unfarmed fish, like Alan C. :D
Emma! Alan is nothing like an unfarmed fish. Apologise immediately! :D

A comment about me from A H that's not in the negative! It must be Christmas! :smile:
Yes I still sneak down to the veggie thread now and again.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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getreal
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#18 Postby getreal » December 23rd, 2008, 11:35 pm

Emma Woolgatherer wrote:
getreal wrote:I stopped eating soya products partly because I found them either tasteless or vile tasting and also because I believed the increase of soy production was harming the enviornment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... redspecies

However, I only know this from articles in newspapers and on the radio.
Most (about 93 per cent, I've read) of the soya beans that are grown worldwide are crushed to produce oil and meal. The meal goes to feed livestock, and the oil is the world's most widely used edible oil, and crops up in all sorts of things, like salad dressings and mayonnaise and sauces and margarines and breads and biscuits and crisps. (The oil is also used in soaps, inks, paints, varnishes, resins, plastics and biodiesel.) Only a small proportion (about 7 per cent) of soya is consumed as tofu or meat substitutes. And given the protein conversion ratios — you need to feed 3 kg of soya or grain to get 1 kg of chicken meat or 1 kg of eggs; 4 kg to get 1 kg of turkey; 6 kg to get 1 kg of pork; 10 kg to get 1 kg of cheese; and 16 kg to get 1 kg of beef — a meat-eater is likely to consume more soya indirectly than a tofu-loving vegan would be consuming directly, unless that meat-eater gets his or her protein exclusively from free-range livestock and unfarmed fish, like Alan C. :D

Emma



I didn't know that.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

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Alan C.
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#19 Postby Alan C. » December 31st, 2008, 10:38 pm

Happy new year from the Scotsman.
Shock report reveals processed food ingredient is linked to lung cancer.
And a happy new year from me to all the veggies on here, another new growing season just around the corner, can't come soon enough!
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

gregory
Died May 2009 R.I.P
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Re: DIET AND CANCER

#20 Postby gregory » January 10th, 2009, 10:24 am

Thanks Alan C and Happy New Year to All.

To the person discussing lung and breast cancer then I suppose only the experts would know although I suppose research is being done all the time hopefully anyway. Its annoying when one does not smoke etc and still gets lung cancer but breast cancer can lead to it unfortunately.
There'll be blue birds over

The white cliffs of Dover


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