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DIET AND CANCER
Moderator: clayto
DIET AND CANCER
Just to say that if anyone has taken to soya in order to come off either milk or meat then make sure it is ORGANIC as soya contains a lot of polyestrogens. Now if the soya is organic then there are substances in the soya to counteract the polyeostrogens if it isn't organic then the polyeostrogens can cause breast cancer.
Breast cancer is usually associated with women but men can get it too.
Breast cancer is usually associated with women but men can get it too.
There'll be blue birds over
The white cliffs of Dover
The white cliffs of Dover
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- Posts: 33
- Joined: August 25th, 2007, 5:59 pm
Re: DIET AND CANCER
This is the first time that I have heard this. Do you have some references for the research which proves this?
Edward
Edward
Re: DIET AND CANCER
Gregory presumably means phytoestrogens. I found a couple of links:
http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/FactShe ... .phyto.cfm
http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/con ... l/57/5/260
From the first source:
http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/FactShe ... .phyto.cfm
http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/con ... l/57/5/260
From the first source:
Phytoestrogens are estrogen-like chemicals found in plant foods such as beans, seeds, and grains. Foods made from soybeans have some of the highest levels of phytoestrogens and have been studied the most. In spite of initial optimism, it is not clear whether eating foods rich in phytoestrogens decreases breast cancer risk. This is an active area of research with much work needed to resolve this issue. This fact sheet presents the most current information and indicates where more research would be helpful.
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- Posts: 33
- Joined: August 25th, 2007, 5:59 pm
Re: DIET AND CANCER
Thanks Maria. I am happy to carry on drinking soya milk and eating soya products.
Re: DIET AND CANCER
We are 'experimenting' with soya milk and cheese. The latter in particular I find almost uneatable, even the smell can be offputting but I sill hope to find something acceptable. We are quite happy with soya yogs, cream and many other soya foodstuffs.
Chris
Chris
clayto
Re: DIET AND CANCER
I recall a few years ago, seeing an article in a science news letter that feeding children significant amounts of soy products, which contain phyto-estrogenic compounds, tends to lower the testosterone level of male children. I don't know if it has any significant results, but I also recall a synthetic chemical called diethyl stilbesterol, which had estrogenic properties, and was used in the 1950's and '60's to reduce the incidence of miscarriages. It was later found that a) it didn't work, and b) it caused birth defects in the genetalia of the fetuses - sterility in females and reduced testosterone levels and external genetalia size of males.
I prefer getting much of my protein from legumes. While I do eat a moderate amount of tofu, I don't have to worry since I'm 77 and have had radiation for prostate cancer. I believe the term is post-sexual.
Occam
I prefer getting much of my protein from legumes. While I do eat a moderate amount of tofu, I don't have to worry since I'm 77 and have had radiation for prostate cancer. I believe the term is post-sexual.
Occam
Re: DIET AND CANCER
Some soya milk is OK, but I've given up trying to find any decent soya cheese, although I'm sure I rely too much on dairy products. My one failing is parmesan - the plastic veggie stuff is disgusting!clayto wrote:We are 'experimenting' with soya milk and cheese. The latter in particular I find almost uneatable, even the smell can be offputting but I sill hope to find something acceptable. We are quite happy with soya yogs, cream and many other soya foodstuffs.
Chris
Alan Henness
There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:
1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?
There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:
1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?
Re: DIET AND CANCER
Why is it, do you think, that there is such a problem with soya cheese when other soya prodcts are OK (taste wise)?
Chris
Chris
clayto
- Emma Woolgatherer
- Posts: 2976
- Joined: February 27th, 2008, 12:17 pm
Re: DIET AND CANCER
Because real cheese is an ancient food, and making it is an ancient skill, involving acidification with bacterial cultures and coagulation with enzymes and other mysterious processes. The earliest cheeses are thought to have been quite sour and salty. Cheese-makers have had thousands of years to improve on them. The most disgusting cheeses have died out. We're left with the ones that taste best. Cheese has evolved by something akin to natural selection.clayto wrote:Why is it, do you think, that there is such a problem with soya cheese when other soya prodcts are OK (taste wise)?
Unlike soya yoghurt and soft cheese, hard soya cheeses are not simply versions of real cheese made with soya milk instead of cow's milk or sheep's milk or goat's milk, using traditional methods. Soya milk, being fairly low in fat, and very low in saturated fat, is not suitable for such a process. I don't know whether it's possible to make cheese in the traditional method from other plant products, but if it is, I suspect it would take a big capital investment to research suitable ingredients and methods and to set up a factory to manufacture that kind of cheese, and the market isn't large enough to justify that investment.
So vegan cheeses are just modern processed foods, using modern techniques and ingredients, including gelling agents and emulsifiers and artificial flavours. They're made very quickly, on a very small scale. They sell in sufficient quantities, I suppose because they're salty and high in fat, and presumably there are enough consumers who are avoiding dairy, for various reasons, for whom that's good enough. Or maybe there are enough people willing to try these things just once!
Emma
P.S. Edited to add: "It has been found that no satisfactory product could be obtained from soy milk by conventional cheese-making processes (Obara, T., 1968; Basic investigations on the development of foods from enzymatically treated soybean protein concentrates to increase use of United States soybeans in Japan. U.S. Dept. Agr., Final Technical Report PL 480 Project UR-A11(40)26). Obara therefore suggested to treat the curd obtained by salt precipitation of soy milk with proteolytic enzymes before inoculating with Streptococcus cremoris and Streptococcus lactis. Because of the considerable number of operational steps, this process never gained interest amongst soy milk manufacturers." (Soy milk fermentation process, European Patent EP0521331, patent filed 1992). See also Soybeans: Chemistry, Technology, and Utilization, by KeShun Liu, pages 419-21.
Re: DIET AND CANCER
A very interesting response! We have found some 'soya cheese slices' which were OK.
Are you sure all the horrible cheeses have been discarded over the years, eliminated by 'natural selection'? It is interesting how much human 'tastes' differ between individuals and cultures.
Chris
Are you sure all the horrible cheeses have been discarded over the years, eliminated by 'natural selection'? It is interesting how much human 'tastes' differ between individuals and cultures.
Chris
clayto
Re: DIET AND CANCER
Yeuch! You've put me right of it now.Emma W wrote:...making it is an ancient skill, involving acidification with bacterial cultures and coagulation with enzymes and other mysterious processes.
Alan Henness
There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:
1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?
There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:
1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?
Re: DIET AND CANCER
My sister had breast cancer in 03 she under went the surgery and chemo treatments and was cancer free, so she thought she requested a PET scan as she works at the Cleveland Clinic and knows that they are very good at finding cancer cells. Her scan came back with finding a small cell in her lung; she had breast cancer in the right breast very aggressive type and now a spot in her left Lung she does not smoke. Does anyone have and information on this type of cancer?
Re: DIET AND CANCER
lesley
Welcome to our forum.
I'm sorry to hear about your sister. I don't think anyone here is particularly qualified to give any advice on it. I suggest you really need to talk to a local specialist [---][/---] presumably her doctor will be able to advise her on the best course of action?
Welcome to our forum.
I'm sorry to hear about your sister. I don't think anyone here is particularly qualified to give any advice on it. I suggest you really need to talk to a local specialist [---][/---] presumably her doctor will be able to advise her on the best course of action?
Alan Henness
There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:
1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?
There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:
1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?
Re: DIET AND CANCER
I stopped eating soya products partly because I found them either tasteless or vile tasting and also because I believed the increase of soy production was harming the enviornment.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... redspecies
However, I only know this from articles in newspapers and on the radio.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... redspecies
However, I only know this from articles in newspapers and on the radio.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.
- Emma Woolgatherer
- Posts: 2976
- Joined: February 27th, 2008, 12:17 pm
Re: DIET AND CANCER
Most (about 93 per cent, I've read) of the soya beans that are grown worldwide are crushed to produce oil and meal. The meal goes to feed livestock, and the oil is the world's most widely used edible oil, and crops up in all sorts of things, like salad dressings and mayonnaise and sauces and margarines and breads and biscuits and crisps. (The oil is also used in soaps, inks, paints, varnishes, resins, plastics and biodiesel.) Only a small proportion (about 7 per cent) of soya is consumed as tofu or meat substitutes. And given the protein conversion ratios [---][/---] you need to feed 3 kg of soya or grain to get 1 kg of chicken meat or 1 kg of eggs; 4 kg to get 1 kg of turkey; 6 kg to get 1 kg of pork; 10 kg to get 1 kg of cheese; and 16 kg to get 1 kg of beef [---][/---] a meat-eater is likely to consume more soya indirectly than a tofu-loving vegan would be consuming directly, unless that meat-eater gets his or her protein exclusively from free-range livestock and unfarmed fish, like Alan C.getreal wrote:I stopped eating soya products partly because I found them either tasteless or vile tasting and also because I believed the increase of soy production was harming the enviornment.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... redspecies
However, I only know this from articles in newspapers and on the radio.
Emma
Re: DIET AND CANCER
Emma! Alan is nothing like an unfarmed fish. Apologise immediately!Emma Woolgatherer wrote:...unfarmed fish, like Alan C.
Alan Henness
There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:
1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?
There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:
1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?
Re: DIET AND CANCER
A comment about me from A H that's not in the negative! It must be Christmas!Alan H wrote:Emma! Alan is nothing like an unfarmed fish. Apologise immediately!Emma Woolgatherer wrote:...unfarmed fish, like Alan C.
Yes I still sneak down to the veggie thread now and again.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.
Re: DIET AND CANCER
Emma Woolgatherer wrote:Most (about 93 per cent, I've read) of the soya beans that are grown worldwide are crushed to produce oil and meal. The meal goes to feed livestock, and the oil is the world's most widely used edible oil, and crops up in all sorts of things, like salad dressings and mayonnaise and sauces and margarines and breads and biscuits and crisps. (The oil is also used in soaps, inks, paints, varnishes, resins, plastics and biodiesel.) Only a small proportion (about 7 per cent) of soya is consumed as tofu or meat substitutes. And given the protein conversion ratios [---][/---] you need to feed 3 kg of soya or grain to get 1 kg of chicken meat or 1 kg of eggs; 4 kg to get 1 kg of turkey; 6 kg to get 1 kg of pork; 10 kg to get 1 kg of cheese; and 16 kg to get 1 kg of beef [---][/---] a meat-eater is likely to consume more soya indirectly than a tofu-loving vegan would be consuming directly, unless that meat-eater gets his or her protein exclusively from free-range livestock and unfarmed fish, like Alan C.getreal wrote:I stopped eating soya products partly because I found them either tasteless or vile tasting and also because I believed the increase of soy production was harming the enviornment.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... redspecies
However, I only know this from articles in newspapers and on the radio.
Emma
I didn't know that.
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.
Re: DIET AND CANCER
Happy new year from the Scotsman.
Shock report reveals processed food ingredient is linked to lung cancer.
And a happy new year from me to all the veggies on here, another new growing season just around the corner, can't come soon enough!
Shock report reveals processed food ingredient is linked to lung cancer.
And a happy new year from me to all the veggies on here, another new growing season just around the corner, can't come soon enough!
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.
Re: DIET AND CANCER
Thanks Alan C and Happy New Year to All.
To the person discussing lung and breast cancer then I suppose only the experts would know although I suppose research is being done all the time hopefully anyway. Its annoying when one does not smoke etc and still gets lung cancer but breast cancer can lead to it unfortunately.
To the person discussing lung and breast cancer then I suppose only the experts would know although I suppose research is being done all the time hopefully anyway. Its annoying when one does not smoke etc and still gets lung cancer but breast cancer can lead to it unfortunately.
There'll be blue birds over
The white cliffs of Dover
The white cliffs of Dover