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Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

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Alan H
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Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#1 Post by Alan H » June 8th, 2008, 3:11 pm

In today's Sunday Times:
********************************************************************************
Parents of ill vegan girl may face police - Times Online
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 087734.ece
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Parents of ill vegan girl may face police
Mark Macaskill

A 12-YEAR-OLD girl in Scotland brought up by her parents on a strict vegan diet has been admitted to hospital with a degenerative bone condition said to have left her with the spine of an 80-year-old woman.

Doctors are under pressure to report the couple to police and social workers amid concerns that her health and welfare may have been neglected in pursuit of their dietary beliefs.

The girl, who has been fed on a strict meat and dairy-free diet from birth, is said to have a severe form of rickets and to have suffered a number of fractured bones.

The condition is caused by a lack of vitamin D, which is needed to absorb calcium and is found in liver, oily fish and dairy produce. Decalcification leads to the bones becoming brittle and can cause curvature of the spine.

Dr Faisal Ahmed, the consultant paediatrician treating the child at the Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Glasgow, declined to discuss the specific case. He said, however, that he believed the dangers of forcing children to follow a strict vegan diet needed to be highlighted.

One leading nutritionist, who asked not to be named, said: “In most instances, the parents who are imposing this very restrictive and potentially hazardous diet are not themselves brought up as vegans. They are imposing on their children something . . . which we do not know enough about to know it is safe.”

Jonathan Sher, head of policy at Children in Scotland, an umbrella group representing 400 organisations, said social workers should intervene where a vegan diet was putting children’s health at risk.

Last year, an American vegan couple were given a life sentence for starving their six-week-old baby to death. In 2001 two vegans from west London were sentenced to three years’ community rehabilitation after they admitted starving their baby to death.

Glasgow city council said the incident involving the 12-year-old girl had not been referred to its social work department.

* Have your say

If meat eaters believe that stuffing their kids with meat and dairy is the only way then they are welcome to do it. If vegans believe that meat and dairy are unhealthy why would they give that to their offspring? There is nothing scientific about this case.

Johannes, Finland,

How strange that dietary beliefs resulting in problems face police prosecution, yet religious beliefs resulting in terror, discrimination, harship, sorrow, alienation and persecution don't.

Laura Roberts, London, United Kingdom

The skin makes its own vitamin D when exposed to sunlight and this is the main source of vitamin D. Many of the 15-20% of adults in the UK with vitamin D deficiency have become so because they do not spend enough time outside, not due to diet, since dietary sources are rare anyway.

Sophie, Wareham, Dorset

In America, you get life in prison for killing someone, in england, you get slapped on the wrist. Proud to be British I am.

Arthur, Newcastle,

Dangerous ground. Most vegans may be regarded as a little strange but not criminals: yet if their choice is harming their offspring then they must be treated as such.

john, Trier, Germany

Poor little victims of the ME generation of parents - as in, MY principles, MY children, MY image of success. 25 Snow Whites is the hilarious (if a little creepy) side of the MY-perfect-child-as-an extension-of-ME syndrome. Locked in a cellar, trapped in dietary purgatory - these are the tragedies

Angela, Epping, Australia

[Captured: 08 June 2008 15:11:00]

###################
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#2 Post by Nick » June 9th, 2008, 12:35 am

Congratulations, Alan, on posting an 'anti-vegan' cutting on this forum. IMO, I think it exposes more about journalists looking for a story than any conclusive evidence about veganism. It's full of holes. Though I'm inclined to think that veganism is not particularly healthy, I am aware that cows' milk is not entirely compatible with (some humans) . Conclusion: Don't believe everything you read in the papers.

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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#3 Post by jaywhat » June 9th, 2008, 5:37 am

I would say this is about child abuse rather than veganism per se.

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brianp
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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#4 Post by brianp » June 9th, 2008, 9:39 am

jaywhat wrote:I would say this is about child abuse rather than veganism per se.
It is both.

This case underlines the fact that humans have evolved to be carnivorous. If adults want to deny themselves animal flesh or all animal products and accept the inherent risks, fine, but to force children to adopt such an unnatural diet is, quite clearly, abuse.

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Emma Woolgatherer
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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#5 Post by Emma Woolgatherer » June 9th, 2008, 11:50 am

One of the reasons I don't advocate a vegan diet for everyone, even though I've been vegan myself for over twenty years with no apparent ill effects, is that I'm conscious that it takes quite a bit of care and effort to ensure that all nutritional requirements are met. Especially for children. At one time, I'd assumed that I'd have brought up my own children, if I'd had any, to be vegan. But I'm not sure now that I would have done. If I had, I'd have been extremely cautious, and probably rather stressed about the whole thing [---][/---] not exactly conducive to a happy family life. And although there do seem to be happy, healthy vegan children about, I should imagine that the social disadvantages of being vegan alone would make life difficult for all but the most confident and outgoing of children.

While I do believe that it’s possible for a supplemented vegan diet to be perfectly healthy [---][/---] much healthier, probably, than the average British child’s diet [---][/---] the addition of a small amount of animal products would certainly make the diet more robust, less precarious, less dependent on supplements, and on people being well-informed about nutrition.

It’s difficult to comment on this particular case until more information is available. But I've looked at the responses on websites referring to it, and many of them are either aggressively anti-vegan or defensively pro-vegan. I don't think either approach is helpful. It is possible that this was a serious case of parental neglect. You’d think there would have been earlier symptoms of rickets [---][/---] bone pain, dental problems, bow legs or knock-knees or other visible deformities [---][/---] so it’s seems odd that action wasn’t taken earlier, before the condition became so severe. If, for some reason, there was a sudden onset of the symptoms, taking the parents by surprise, then they were still at fault if they hadn't ensured that their daughter's diet was supplemented with sufficient Vitamin D2 to top up the not exactly abundant sunlight available in Scotland. But that could have been be a tragic oversight rather than a wilful disregard of their child's health and well-being. And if that’s the case, then an oversight that's so easy to make is something that all vegans should take seriously. Arguing that it's not veganism that's the problem, it's the parents for not doing it "properly", would, I think, be a bit of a cop-out. If veganism is so difficult to do properly, at least when it comes to feeding children, then it really shouldn't be advocated as some kind of universal solution to world hunger. The fact that the diet requires supplementation with Vitamin B12 is a significant disadvantage on its own. And there may be other nutrients [---][/---] iron, calcium, zinc, selenium, folic acid, for example [---][/---] that are more likely to be deficient in a vegan diet.

I’m inclined to think that the "best" diet [---][/---] from an economic, environmental and health perspective [---][/---] is one consisting mainly of plants, with a very small amount of animal products. But the animals involved don’t have to be sentient, like mammals and birds and fish. They can be ones with very primitive central nervous systems: insects and other arthropods, and molluscs (apart from octopuses), and small crustaceans. But perhaps this isn’t the right thread to talk about that. :)

Anyway, I don't see the news item that Alan H. posted as being "anti-vegan". I don't even think it was particularly bad journalism [---][/---] apart from its neglecting to mention that the primary source of Vitamin D is through the action of sunlight (specifically ultraviolet B) on skin. Even non-vegans are at risk of deficiency if they don't get adequate sunlight (especially if they have darker skin), don't take supplements, and don't eat eggs, liver or oily fish in significant quantities. And I should think that would apply to quite a lot of children.

Emma

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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#6 Post by clayto » June 10th, 2008, 2:06 pm

Quote "This case underlines the fact that humans have evolved to be carnivorous." This claimed 'fact' is not correct. Humans have not evolved as carnivores but as omnivores able to live successfully on a wide variety of diets, among them vegetarian and vegan diets. As omnivores we have a choice, based on culture, personal preference and for many of us ethical considerations. Our ability to make such choices and the use of our intellect in doing so is what has 'evolved'. There is ample medical evidence of the heath superiority of many veggie diets compared to meat-eating ones but the more strict vegan diets do seem to require greater knowledge and care. However, we all know that many parents inflict heath risks and damage on children through diet and in particular through meat-eating. It is 'four portions of fruit and veg a day' we are advised to at least include in our diets, not four portions of a dead animal.

Chris
clayto

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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#7 Post by Emma Woolgatherer » June 10th, 2008, 2:43 pm

clayto wrote:It is 'four portions of fruit and veg a day' we are advised to at least include in our diets, not four portions of a dead animal.
Actually, it's five. Or, more accurately, at least five. I like to have at least ten! Image

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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#8 Post by clayto » June 10th, 2008, 4:30 pm

At least five? I knew I was missing out on something. Actually I do not pay too much attention to this because most of my diet is veg and fruit plus dairy produce anyway ---- but my wife being diabetic has to take more care to see she is getting the appropriate balance.

Chris
clayto

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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#9 Post by clayto » June 10th, 2008, 4:50 pm

VEGAN SOCIETY STTEMENT

Rickets, Vitamin D and vegan nutrition

It has been widely reported that a 12-year-old girl is in hospital in
Scotland with a severe case of rickets.

Vegan Society Vice-Chair, Graham Neale, said, "Here at the Vegan Society
we are saddened by this news. As a charity we are devoted to providing
information about maintaining a healthy plant-based diet. Anyone
thinking of becoming vegan, or caring for vegan children and adults
(including caterers ) can contact us for simple guidelines on a healthy,
animal-free diet."

Vegan Society nutrition adviser, Stephen Walsh, said, "The Vegan
Society's guidelines highlight the importance of vitamin D and the
potential need for a supplement, especially during the winter, and we
produce a low-cost vegan supplement, VEG 1, which includes vitamin D.

"We have insufficient information to say what exactly went wrong in
this sad case but we hope that it will increase awareness of the need to
ensure sufficient vitamin D and thereby help prevent any similar
problems in future."

State Registered Dietician Sandra Hood (Dip of Adv Dietetics), said,
"Well-planned vegan diets can support all stages of life. As with any
diet it needs to be balanced and include a variety of foods to meet
nutrient requirements, particularly for growing children [see note 5].

"Vegan children, like all children, are especially vulnerable to vitamin
D deficiency while their bones are growing. The Department of Health
recommends that vitamin drops containing vitamins A, C and D be given to
all children from 6 months to 5 years whether vegan, vegetarian or
meat-eating and the Vegan Society supports this recommendation: children
under 5 years of age have a high requirement for vitamin D to
enable calcium to be deposited in bone.

"Vitamin D is found in many vegan foods including some breakfast cereals
and margarine and some fortified non-dairy milks. It is also formed by
the action of sunlight on the skin and humans rely on sunlight exposure
for this vitamin. Some health experts recommend a vitamin-D supplement
for everyone whether vegan or not, particularly during winter months
when there is minimal vitamin D production from sunlight.

"All parents/carers should think carefully about what they feed their
children and the vegan parents we come into contact with do so with
passion and care.

"We should not lose sight of the benefits of plant-based diets which are
well documented. Studies have shown that vegan children have higher
intakes of fruits and vegetables, foods that are important for health,
and lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol than non-vegetarian
children and this may be important in reducing the risk of developing
chronic diseases such as heart disease and obesity."

Graham Neale continued, "We rely on donations to help people who choose
this diet. We should like to remind all vegans that their health, and the
health of their children, is their responsibility, and that we are
here to help."

The Vegan Society publishes 'Feeding your Vegan Infant with Confidence:
A practical guide from pre-conception through to pre-school' by Sandra Hood,
ISBN 0-907337-29-5
(http://www.vegansociety.com/shop/produc ... ducts_id=2
42)
clayto

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Alan H
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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#10 Post by Alan H » June 11th, 2008, 10:30 pm

It goes without saying that many humans can survive extremely well and healthily on both a vegetarian and a vegan diet. However, these both require knowledge to avoid some health issues. For a vegetarian, these are fairly straightforward; for a vegan, it simply requires greater knowledge about how to be healthy.

But the same applies to an omnivorous diet: humans can live perfectly well on it, but still needs knowledge about nutrition to remain reasonably healthy.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#11 Post by gregory » June 14th, 2008, 10:52 am

Well done

Yes one problem isn't veganism but the use of butter rather than margarine in the Asian community since their skins are darker and do not absorb sunlight so efficiently.

Children's health (and adults for that matter) should be regularly checked since there will be individual tendencies as well as general ones.
There'll be blue birds over
The white cliffs of Dover

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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#12 Post by Pilch » June 14th, 2008, 11:37 pm

Yup, bad nutrition can occur whether you are vegan, vegetarian or omnivorous. Just as it is a fallacy to say a vegetarian or vegan diet is necessarily a good one (as this case shows), so it is a fallacy to suggest an omnivorous diet is necessarily bad or good, in health terms. There will be many obese children fed on burgers and chicken nuggets, but I don't see papers blaming omnivorous parents for forcing an omnivorous lifestyle upon them!

Like Emma W, I'm a vegetarian, but I didn't force a vegetarian diet on my children. Not for health reasons, but because I don't think children are automatons for parents to act out their values through: they are autonomous individuals who need to learn how to make choices. They won't learn that if we make all their choices for them!

My elder daughter (12) has now pretty much settled upon vegetarianism, but my younger daughter (8) is still omnivorous, and I think will probably always be.

To pick up on something else Emma W said, I read an interesting book on sustainable diet and food production (Colin Tudge, 2003, So We Shall Reap, London: Penguin), which suggests (amongst other things) that a healthy diet and sustainable food production are bound up together: we need, as humans, lots of cereal and fruit and veg, but only a very little meat/animal products. If we also produced in those proportions, we'd find we were doing less harm and were more able to feed ourselves. (Vast over-simplification. I recommend the book, to vegetarians and omnivores alike).

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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#13 Post by Maria Mac » June 14th, 2008, 11:51 pm

Emma's a vegan actually. Alan H is strictly vegetarian, as is clayto who started the Humanist Vegetarian Group. I assume gregory is one too?

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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#14 Post by Pilch » June 14th, 2008, 11:55 pm

Maria wrote:Emma's a vegan actually.
Aye, OK, but I was referring to this comment of hers:
At one time, I'd assumed that I'd have brought up my own children, if I'd had any, to be vegan. But I'm not sure now that I would have done.
And saying that although I'm a vegetarian, that's not how I brought up my children.

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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#15 Post by Alan H » June 15th, 2008, 1:36 pm

In today's Sunday Times:
********************************************************************************
Veganism — lifestyle choice or child abuse? - Times Online
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 137426.ece
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Veganism — lifestyle choice or child abuse?
After a Glasgow teenager was found to have rickets, her parents face serious questions
Vegetables
Tom Sanders

The shocking report of a vegan teenage girl from Glasgow who developed the severe bone disease rickets has led to claims that bringing up children as vegans is a form of child abuse.

An isolated case of rickets in a vegan child should not be used to castigate all vegans, however, because rickets is a complex disorder that also occurs among children brought up on mixed diets. But there is a worrying tendency among some vegans not to follow sensible dietary advice, which can put their children’s health at risk.

Rickets is a disorder where the bones are bent and brittle. It is caused by a deficiency of vitamin D, which is needed to absorb calcium and make bones rigid. The main source of the vitamin is sunlight, from ultraviolet-B (UV-B) radiation on the skin, and not from food; the amount of vitamin D even in mixed diets is very low.

The government recommends that certain groups take supplements of vitamin D (pregnant and lactating women, under-fives, the elderly and housebound). There is no recommended intake of vitamin D for teenage children and adults because exposure to sunlight is considered sufficient to meet needs.

In Britain, we have large, seasonal variations in exposure to UV-B: blood levels of the vitamin fall from October to March and rise in the summer. Exposure to sunlight in summer builds up stores of vitamin D that can tide us through winter.

Rickets used to be rife in Scotland and the north of England in the early part of the 20th century. At that time, smog caused by coal-burning blocked out the UV-B rays of sunlight. Rickets is now rare, but sporadic cases still occur, particularly in Glasgow.

Current (sensible) advice to prevent skin cancer by reducing exposure to UV-B light through the use of sun creams and avoiding direct exposure to sunlight may also impair the capacity to make vitamin D. At the moment there is much debate as to whether we need to increase the amount of vitamin D in food. Another contributing factor to rickets is a high intake of phytic acid, found in large amounts in unleavened bread, brown rice and oats. This substance interferes with the absorption of calcium and increases the need for vitamin D.

Vegans follow their diets because of a strongly held conviction that it is wrong to eat animals. I am not a vegan or vegetarian, but I have spent the last 35 years studying the diet and health of vegans. A vegan diet contains no food of animal origin whatsoever. Generally it comprises a mixture of cereals (often unrefined or wholegrain), pulses, nuts and plenty of fruit and vegetables.

Providing the diet is not restricted in variety and is supplemented with vitamin B12 and vitamin D, it can meet all nutritional requirements. A vegan diet can also support normal growth and development of children providing it is sensibly selected and the known pitfalls are avoided. There is plenty of sensible advice available from organisations such as The Vegan Society. Most vegans do follow this advice, but a significant number choose to ignore it and put their health and their children’s at risk.

Too often, severe malnutrition has occurred in children fed on inappropriate vegan diets consisting mainly of fruit. Young children’s small stomachs mean they cannot derive enough nutrition from such a bulky diet.

Vegans are keen to promote the health benefits of their diet: less obesity, lower blood cholesterol, lower risk of heart disease, and so on. However, their claim that vegans are less likely to develop cancer is not true.

Despite being warned that the lack of vitamin B12 is a problem, it seems that many vegans don’t heed the dietary advice seriously and follow their own pet nostrum, thinking they will adapt to a diet deficient in vitamin B12. Our research has shown that about one third of vegans have worryingly low intakes of vitamin B12, which puts them at an increased risk of damaging their spinal cord and brain as well as increasing the risk of stroke and cancer. Vegan mothers who do not take vitamin B12 risk causing brain damage in the babies they breastfeed.

Vegan activists are also keen to tell us that “milk sucks” and peddle half-truths about the hazards of drinking milk. What they don’t publicise is that the low calcium intake caused by the lack of milk in the diet makes them more likely to develop brittle bones and succumb to bone fractures. However, vegans can easily increase their calcium intake by using fortified soy milk or by adding chalk (calcium carbonate) to foods such as bread. In view of the high intake of unrefined cereals, it is advisable for vegans to supplement their diet with vitamin D in the form of ergocalciferol, which is made from plant sources.

There is generally no need for the regular monitoring of children brought up as vegans, but health professionals need to be aware of what constitutes a healthy vegan diet and advise parents accordingly.

Parents, whatever the dietary persuasion, have a duty to ensure that their children are properly nourished. Providing the advice given is followed, the right of parents to raise their children as vegans should be respected. Those who fail to follow this advice are guilty of child abuse.

Tom Sanders is professor of nutrition and dietetics at King’s College London

[Captured: 15 June 2008 13:35:14]

###################
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

clayto
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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#16 Post by clayto » June 15th, 2008, 5:07 pm

Another useful contribution to this important issue.

Am I alone in thinking the expression 'child abuse' is inappropriate and loaded? It seems to me that in all the real or theoretical cases referred to the expression 'child neglect' might be rather more accurate (neglect through ignorance etc) though even this may be going too far in stigmatising the actions of what may well be loving and concerned parents who have got something wrong, as many parents will, despite good intentions.

Chris
clayto

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Alan H
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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#17 Post by Alan H » June 15th, 2008, 5:22 pm

Yes, child abuse sounds like the parents wanted to harm the child (I assume that isn't the case here!); child neglect would be where there is ignorance about the effects of something they were doing. However, child abuse gives a better headline as far as the media are concerned.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#18 Post by Alan H » June 16th, 2008, 7:48 pm

Yet another interesting article on this:
********************************************************************************
Vegan babies - Times Online
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 131103.ece
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Vegan babies
Q&A: the Times nutritionist answers your questions
Amanda Ursell

I became a vegetarian at 13, for the simple reason that I don't like the taste of meat. Then, in my early twenties, when I realised the impact that raising animals for human consumption has on the planet, I became vegan. I am now 34 and I would like to have a baby. My partner is a vegetarian, and I had assumed that it would be fine to be pregnant and to raise the baby on either of our diets. However, I recently heard about the case of a young girl who developed a severe form of rickets because of a strict meat and dairy-free diet. This has made me concerned - is it possible to raise a healthy baby on a vegan diet? Should I consider temporarily becoming a lacto-ovo vegetarian while pregnant?
Lorraine 34, Leeds

If you would prefer to continue to be vegan, you can do so in the knowledge that there are many examples of healthy “second generation” vegans in this country - in other words, people who are now adults whose mothers and fathers were vegan at their time of conception and who were subsequently raised as vegan infants and children.

However, be aware that, as with any diet, there are “good” and “bad” versions of veganism, and you have to be particularly careful about getting the balance right, for yourself and your offspring, when following this regimen. You need to be scrupulously careful to ensure, particularly, that you get enough vitamin D (needed for strong bones) and B12 (for a robust nervous system), as well as minerals such as selenium and iodine. This is a challenge to achieve when eschewing all animal products in your diet.

The Vegan Society has published a very good book entitled Feeding Your Vegan Child (£9.99), written by the dietitian Sandra Hood. In it, she reveals how parents, infants and children can thrive on a diet that avoids completely all animal products, including meat, poultry, fish, eggs, dairy foods, honey and by-products of animals such as gelatin. By using soya milk fortified with vitamin D, vitamin B12 and calcium, you can get enough of the bone-building nutrients you need to help your infant's skeleton to develop while you are pregnant and when breast-feeding.

One sound piece of advice is to invest in a specially formulated supplement for Vegans called Veg1 (90 tablets, £4.99), which contains the nutrients mentioned above, plus folic acid - women trying to conceive need to have 400 micrograms of this each day. Purists may resent the idea of taking a supplement, but in my view it is a sensible “insurance policy”.

It is worth remembering that there are plenty of unhealthy omnivorous diets, and that a lot of infants in this country are being raised on diets that are too high in salt, saturated fats and sugars, so if you take your responsibilities seriously to eat a well-balanced vegan diet, you need not feel that you are doing anything wrong.

Vegans appear to have lower rates of heart disease in later life, so de-stressing about the subject is important for improving your chances of conception and for having a happy, healthy pregnancy and a healthy baby.

Diet advice

1. Make wholegrain cereals and potatoes the basis of every meal. Fortified breakfast cereals are useful for boosting nutrients. Wholegrain cereals provide iron for energy and zinc for strong immunity.

2. Have a “meat alternative” at every meal. Tofu, beans, lentils, chickpeas, nuts, seeds and peanut butter all give you protein instead of meat, fish, poultry and eggs.

3. Eat dairy alternatives at least twice a day. These include fortified soya milk, soya yoghurts and soya cheese, plus calcium-rich foods such as dried apricots, green leafy vegetables (except spinach), nuts and sesame seeds.

4. Fruit and vegetables. Have at least five a day, with lots of variety. Eat those rich in vitamin C, such as citrus fruits and peppers, at main meals to help the absorption of iron. Have vitamin D-fortified spreads, soya milk and cereals daily, and try to get into the sunlight, especially between March and September.

5. Have iodised salt or small amounts of seaweed each day.

6. Eat three or four brazil nuts a day for selenium, or make sure that your vegan supplement supplies it.

For more information and to buy Sandra Hood's book or the Veg1 supplement, contact http://www.vegansociety.com or call 0845 4588244.

If you have nutrition questions for Amanda, e-mail her at [email protected]

* Have your say

This child will not lack the nutrients found in dairy products if the mother breastfeeds several years. This is common in many countries, some of which have no dairy animals. Natural term BF results in naturally healthy mums and babies. Let's hope this mum can get early, good support to BF.

Alison Blenkinsop IBCLC, Aldershot, UK

Excellent article. Much better than the inflamatory & sensationalist "girl made ill by strict vegan diet" story of last week, that failed to offer any real nutritional information or advice. This article shows a good awareness of the health benefits of a vegan diet & i hope this baby is a happy one!

Ben Hillyer, Yorkshire,

For people wanting help, advice or guidance on going vegetarian or vegan, the Vegetarian & Vegan Foundation produce a range of easy-to-read guides full of practical tips and recipes as well as a series of useful fact sheets and fully referenced scientific reports.

J Butler, Bristol, UK

[Captured: 16 June 2008 19:47:11]

###################
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#19 Post by Nick » June 17th, 2008, 8:41 pm

Re: child 'abuse'. I think we've had this before with the smacking/ 'hitting' debate. For me, it demonstrates a mind closed to considered discussion, and hence harmful to their cause.

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Rami
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Re: Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

#20 Post by Rami » August 13th, 2008, 8:27 am

Nick wrote:Congratulations, Alan, on posting an 'anti-vegan' cutting on this forum. IMO, I think it exposes more about journalists looking for a story than any conclusive evidence about veganism. It's full of holes. Though I'm inclined to think that veganism is not particularly healthy, I am aware that cows' milk is not entirely compatible with (some humans) . Conclusion: Don't believe everything you read in the papers.
There is a lot about this case we don't know. I don't understand why the child had a vitamin D deficiency. We make out own when we stand out in the sun. Besides that, all kinds of foods are fortified with vitamin D - like the soymlik I consume every morning.

Being a vegan myself, Nick, I disagree with you. I think veganism is the healthiest way to go. I mean, even if it were not, I would still remain a vegan, for ethical reasons, but it is a happy coincidence that it is as healthy as it is. I eat products made of grains, beans, vegetables, fruits, seeds, nuts... I get plenty of lean protein, complex carbs, low saturated fat, no cholesterol (save for the miniscule amount of plant sterols), lots and lots of fibre... My blood pressure is lower than ever and I have not had even a cold in over eight months (very unusual for me, considering my life history of disease...)

Of course it take a little bit of planning - as should any diet. You can't just eat iceberg lettuce and alfalfa sprouts. That's not a balanced vegan diet. I have no idea what these parents were feeding that poor child, but I seriously doubt it was a balanced vegan diet.

By the way, there is scientific evidence that shows vegans are healthier. Granted, vegans do not necessarily live longer, but are healthier. I'll see if I can dig it up and post it.

Rami

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