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Wear a happy human symbol necklace to work

For news of events, petitions and campaigns that may be of interest to humanists and secularists.
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Fia
Posts: 5480
Joined: July 6th, 2007, 8:29 pm

Re: Wear a happy human symbol necklace to work

#21 Post by Fia » September 28th, 2016, 9:54 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Alan H wrote:
Fia wrote:I wear a Humanist symbol when wearing my Humanist Celebrant hat. When not, I hope my actions speak for me.
Celebrants wear hats? :D
Metaphorical hats, Alan :D I could have phrased that better :redface:
Manel wrote: I don't think humanism is a belief.
I struggle with this too, Manel. It feels uncomfortable. I don't believe, I'm working towards understanding. However, being grouped with religions it does offer us some of their privileges (which they shouldn't have anyway, but that's another story) such as being able to legally marry folk.

Manel
Posts: 68
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 5:46 am

Re: Wear a happy human symbol necklace to work

#22 Post by Manel » September 29th, 2016, 5:37 am

Hello, Fia!

Thanks very much for the explanation. I understand now. This thing of being described as a belief is a dougle-edged weapon, then.

Ok, I assume it. I hope the day comes when somebody in Spain has a problem with me wearing a humanist symbol ( when I get one) because it's identified with a belief. It'll be great :D

Thanks for your time

Best wishes

Manel

Zeff
Posts: 142
Joined: August 6th, 2016, 2:13 pm

Re: Wear a happy human symbol necklace to work

#23 Post by Zeff » September 29th, 2016, 8:36 am

....

Zeff
Posts: 142
Joined: August 6th, 2016, 2:13 pm

Re: Wear a happy human symbol necklace to work

#24 Post by Zeff » September 29th, 2016, 8:38 am

Zeff wrote:
Alan H wrote:
Manel wrote:Hello, animist. Thanks for your post,
But I don't think humanism is a belief. Scientific and critic thought is not believing. I adopt the theories that evidence supports.
A pleasure to talk with you.

Best wishes

Manel
Humanism isn't a belief per se, but is included under the umbrella of 'beliefs' in things like the European Convention on Human rights as in 'religion and beliefs.
I agree with Manel. It is unfortunate the concept of a 'belief system' had to appear to be endorsed by including humanism in things like the European Convention on Human Rights. If religions had proper manifestos instead of supposed 'belief systems' and elected offices instead of clerics I wouldn't object to the comparisons, but then they wouldn't be religions.

The difference between religionists and the rest is that religionists "believe in" and "have faith", or think they do. That is precisely what humanism avoids. To class humanism as a belief system is nothing to do with avoiding a double standard, it is misunderstanding or misrepresenting what people are saying. The world is a complicated place and such misunderstandings are inevitable. The Australian Census lists humanism with religions, I think. That is unfortunate too and I wouldn't tick that box but perhaps even that is an improvement on the British Census form which is worse than useless for non-believers in respect to 'classifying beliefs'. It is certainly no basis for political decisions.

I'm generally in favour of letting people wear what they like, but I can see why it wouldn't help certain situations like magistrate's courts.

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Wear a happy human symbol necklace to work

#25 Post by Alan H » September 29th, 2016, 9:38 am

I wouldn't get too hung up on the word 'belief' in the context of human rights. I see a difference between 'belief' and 'belief system'. The first is simply a useful category in which to put those who are atheists so they are given the same rights under equalities law. It's a legal category, that's all. 'Belief system' isn't - AFAIK - used in that context and it certainly implies there is some systematisation of beliefs: that can apply to religions but I don't see it applying to atheism/humanism in the same way.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Wear a happy human symbol necklace to work

#26 Post by Alan H » October 4th, 2016, 12:57 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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