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We're missing something...

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

We're missing something...

#1 Post by Alan H » March 9th, 2008, 12:52 pm

I got an email about the various meetups in the area (the Brights is one) and realised we're missing out on others.

I think we need to go to the first 'witches moot' to be held this week in Edinburgh. A quote from one of the participants:
Really looking forward to meeting some like minded people at long last and hoping to learn 1st hand from people who know what they are doing. Maybe even joining a working coven eventually.
The first thing that comes to mind is either a bunch of old hags round a cauldron on a stormy night (a la Macbeth) or naked women prancing round in a circle in a forest clearing...

Enough of my fantasies, but what makes people think that they can influence events or change things by chanting, brews of toad's eyes, etc?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan C.
Posts: 10356
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 3:35 pm

Re: We're missing something...

#2 Post by Alan C. » March 9th, 2008, 2:19 pm

Alan H
Enough of my fantasies, but what makes people think that they can influence events or change things by chanting, brews of toad's eyes, etc?
Just change "chanting, brews of toad's eyes" to prayer, I don't think witches are any more (or less) deluded than the religious.
Catholics chant to a string of beads, my Budhist brother in law chants to a scroll in a small wooden cabinet, chanting is not only the preserve of witches, it's rife :laughter:
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

MHB
Posts: 32
Joined: February 22nd, 2008, 1:31 pm

Re: We're missing something...

#3 Post by MHB » March 9th, 2008, 3:30 pm

I think all human beings must have a shared, singular genetic defect - which results in us being afraid not to be in control, or afraid whenever we find ourselves not in control. Belief systems of all types, including but not limited to religion, help us live with that fear. To the extent the belief system verges away from reality, we get lost in delusion. And, I think we all can agree the world is jam packed with deluded people, seriously participating in lives dramatically removed from reality.

To the extent a belief system stays within "what is" i.e. reality, it works and pushes the envelope of our lives and understanding. I think that is the singular benefit of the scientific belief system - every time we truely learn something about reality, our fear is reduced, at least as it relates to what we just learned. When we understand something, like it or not, agree with it or not, at least we are no longer afraid of it or feel out of control when faced with it.

Perhaps there will come a time when genetic engineers ID that particular gene and propose a remedy.

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: We're missing something...

#4 Post by Alan H » March 9th, 2008, 4:42 pm

MHB wrote:Perhaps there will come a time when genetic engineers ID that particular gene and propose a remedy.
I wonder if a person can be 'cured' of religion in the same way some fundamentalists say gays can be 'cured' of their homosexuality? :shrug:
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

MHB
Posts: 32
Joined: February 22nd, 2008, 1:31 pm

Re: We're missing something...

#5 Post by MHB » March 9th, 2008, 10:13 pm

Alan H wrote: I wonder if a person can be 'cured' of religion in the same way some fundamentalists say gays can be 'cured' of their homosexuality? :shrug:
We could kill two birds with one stone and simply cure the fundamentalists of religion.
:pointlaugh:

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: We're missing something...

#6 Post by Alan H » March 9th, 2008, 11:13 pm

Excellent idea!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

MHB
Posts: 32
Joined: February 22nd, 2008, 1:31 pm

Re: We're missing something...

#7 Post by MHB » March 10th, 2008, 12:01 pm

I'm reading a fascinating book, The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality by Andre Comte-Sponville. In fact, I've been trying to sell it on a number of threads on this web site. The author has a chapter specifically addressing this issue, "Can we do without religion." And he has two answers. Individually, the answer is an easy yes. As a society or culture his answer is yes and no. Yes in the narrow sense of religion as belief in a creator personified God. But no in the broader sense of religion as a connecting idea of community. He says: "There is no such thing as a society without bonds, without communion...[but]...it is possible to commune in something other than the divine and the sacred." Thankfully he expresses this better than I am. If you get a chance to thumb through a copy of this book I think you'll like it.

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Heurismus
Posts: 224
Joined: November 10th, 2007, 8:04 pm

Re: We're missing something...

#8 Post by Heurismus » March 11th, 2008, 11:13 pm

Hmmm! I agree that using incantations and prayers are an outward sign of some wish fulfilment. But there is a very serious and beneficial side to Buddhist chanting whether it's done with a bell, water and your own gohonzon or not.

I think that resonant frequencies in the body, generated by the low gutteral chanting have amazingly relaxing properties. (You should try it and see what I mean.)
I remember in my youth going to a Zen temple just outside Paris. I can't remember how I felt prior to this event or even what my thoughts were but I guarantee that the after effect was really mind blowing in a buzzy trippy way. When I left the temple I actually felt as if I were floating and the sense of 'wellbeing' lasting several days.

I think I would have puked immediately if I'd tried the eye of toad and gonad of newt method. Still, it takes all sorts.
The most cogent reason for restricting the interference of government is the great evil of adding unnecessarily to its power. - J.S. Mill

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Alan H
Posts: 24067
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: We're missing something...

#9 Post by Alan H » March 12th, 2008, 7:53 am

Heurismus wrote:I think that resonant frequencies in the body, generated by the low gutteral chanting have amazingly relaxing properties.
Low voice frequencies may well resonate in the larynx, but I suspect frequencies that resonate with other parts of the body are well below the human voice range. IIRC, frequencies below 10 Hz have been used to make people uncomfortable to disperse crowds, etc.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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