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Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
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Compassionist
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Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#1 Post by Compassionist » June 12th, 2012, 5:00 pm

Why should I believe in Christ’s resurrection?

A Christian friend of mine referred me to the above link which sets out 5 lines of 'evidence' for Christ's resurrection. What do you think of them?

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Alan H
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#2 Post by Alan H » June 12th, 2012, 5:09 pm

Utter tosh.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Tetenterre
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#3 Post by Tetenterre » June 12th, 2012, 5:34 pm

Firstly, repeated assertion is not the same as evidence. AFAIK there are no contemporary written accounts (i.e. written approx 33 CE). The whole thing is infested with the fallacy of Affirming the Consequent.

The citing of the opinion of Sir Lionel Luckhoo is merely the fallacy of Appeal to Authority.

The "lines":
1. Assertion. No contemporary written accounts.
2. Could be evidence for any number of things (e.g. opportunism, delusion, hallucination).
3 & 4. Tacitus was not contemporaneous; he was repeating hearsay. Those who Nero burned were not those who were said to be present at the (claimed) resurrection.
5. Many early Xians were women and early Xianity was less disparaging of women than was the norm. If one wished to better the lot of women, how better to do it than invent a mythos around them being the first to receive a "revelation".
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Alan H
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#4 Post by Alan H » June 12th, 2012, 5:57 pm

What Tetenterre said - I couldn't be bothered listing the fallacies!

ETA: I think fallacy of personal incredulity appeared several times as well.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Compassionist
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#5 Post by Compassionist » June 12th, 2012, 7:23 pm

Thank you very much for your comments. I will refer my Christian friend to them and see what he says.

Why won't God heal amputees? The Christian answer to this question is incredible!

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Alan C.
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#6 Post by Alan C. » June 12th, 2012, 8:18 pm

Compassionist wrote:Thank you very much for your comments. I will refer my Christian friend to them and see what he says.

Why won't God heal amputees? The Christian answer to this question is incredible!
Maybe humans aren't her (god) favourite creatures after all?
Salamanders, Starfish and others can and do grow whole new limbs,
As our American friends would say "go figure".
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

Compassionist
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#7 Post by Compassionist » June 13th, 2012, 7:50 am

Alan C. wrote:
Compassionist wrote:Thank you very much for your comments. I will refer my Christian friend to them and see what he says.

Why won't God heal amputees? The Christian answer to this question is incredible!
Maybe humans aren't her (god) favourite creatures after all?
Salamanders, Starfish and others can and do grow whole new limbs,
As our American friends would say "go figure".
Yes, indeed. I am quoting from the above link:
His words confirm the relative unimportance of our physical condition in this world, as compared to our eternal state. To enter life maimed (and then to be made whole) is infinitely better than to enter hell whole (to suffer for eternity).
I wonder if other organisms go to Heaven and Hell...

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jaywhat
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#8 Post by jaywhat » June 13th, 2012, 7:55 am

Alan H wrote:Utter tosh.
Yes I agree and I have not even looked at it.

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animist
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#9 Post by animist » June 13th, 2012, 4:53 pm

I am less dismissive than some of you about the Resurrection itself, but equally scornful about the pathetic attempts of Xians to explain away Jesus God's unwillingness to contravene his own laws when this would be humane :D; apparently he did a lot of this when earthbound but will no longer oblige. Reminds me of the old comedian Jimmy Wheeler, who would say "Aye, aye, that's your lot!"

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Altfish
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#10 Post by Altfish » June 14th, 2012, 12:03 pm

Compassionist wrote:Why should I believe in Christ’s resurrection?

A Christian friend of mine referred me to the above link which sets out 5 lines of 'evidence' for Christ's resurrection. What do you think of them?
:hilarity:

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jaywhat
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#11 Post by jaywhat » June 14th, 2012, 1:39 pm

I have to be pretty dismissive regarding the resurrection, being dismissive of the actual existence of the person in question in the first place.

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Tetenterre
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#12 Post by Tetenterre » June 14th, 2012, 2:15 pm

jaywhat wrote:I have to be pretty dismissive regarding the resurrection,
Ditto, but mainly because I'm a bit too old to believe in zombies.
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Dave B
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#13 Post by Dave B » June 14th, 2012, 3:01 pm

'Ang on! If I was effectively dead (if only for a few seconds before the jump leads got me going again) does that make me a zombie? :laughter:
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Tetenterre
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#14 Post by Tetenterre » June 14th, 2012, 4:03 pm

Dave, didn't your best friends already tell you? Shame on them! :laughter:

(But maybe you weren't actually brain-dead...?)
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Dave B
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#15 Post by Dave B » June 14th, 2012, 5:19 pm

(But maybe you weren't actually brain-dead...?)
There are times when I wonder . . .

No, I am definitely amongst the un-dead in the literal sense!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Nick
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#16 Post by Nick » June 14th, 2012, 5:24 pm

Compassionist wrote:Why should I believe in Christ’s resurrection?

A Christian friend of mine referred me to the above link which sets out 5 lines of 'evidence' for Christ's resurrection. What do you think of them?
Hi Compo, :)

A very brief refutation:

Quoting Sir Lionel Luckhoo is just an appeal to authority. Just tell your friend that the inestimable members of TH think exactly the opposite.

Reason 1. Hundreds of people say they have seen Elvis. Does he believe them too? You might also ask if he believes the graces were opened in Jerusalem and corpses were brought back to life. Witnesses, y'see?

Reason 2. Key skeptics. Hmmm... Even Mother Teresa lost her faith. So it works both ways.

Reasons 3 & 4. Empty tomb. Explain why an unknown supernatural explanation is somehow more likely than an unknown natural one.

Reason 5. How curious of a presumably infinitely good God to rely on the outrageous treatment of women in society to justify his supernatural sado-masochistic party-trick!

Utter drivel.

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Dave B
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#17 Post by Dave B » June 14th, 2012, 6:27 pm

Reason 1. Hundreds of people say they have seen Elvis.
Image
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animist
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#18 Post by animist » June 15th, 2012, 7:33 am

I was thinking about the Resurrection and the Gospels, and it seems to be akin to somone suddenly now writing and publishing, out of the blue, an account of some claimed miracle during the Falklands War 30 years ago, with claims about what eye-witnesses saw but no actual indication that the author had spoken to any of these. The empty tomb is of course a mystery if what was said to happen really did so, but the accounts of it just are not credible, and Sir Lionel was a famous defence lawyer who in fact would have revelled in tearing such claims, transferred to a modern setting like the one I mentioned, to shreds.

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Dave B
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#19 Post by Dave B » June 15th, 2012, 9:25 am

Can't remember the actual circumstances of the empty tomb but one theory could be that the body could have been "snatched". That could either be by supporters of JC as a martyr or the authorities not wanting JC to become a martyr (and getting it completely wrong!)
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan C.
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#20 Post by Alan C. » June 15th, 2012, 5:56 pm

Jaywhat
I have to be pretty dismissive regarding the resurrection, being dismissive of the actual existence of the person in question in the first place.
Best reply so far :) Dave if there was a tomb surely it would be a sight of veneration?
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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