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Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
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TheJackel
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Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War

#1 Post by TheJackel » November 23rd, 2012, 5:09 am

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Now I am sure many of you here have heard of this argument of Yahweh being equated to a Volcano Deity before. I would say probably by various people extracting verses from Exodus and the Duet.. However, if you are really curious of the extent this argument, I had decided to write two very in depth articles on the subject for your reading pleasure,... or hellish terror! I must warn the impatient as these articles are not short by any means. However, I tried my best to keep them as short as possible while providing as much content as possible as there is literally a Mountain of evidence and information on this subject.

It must also be noted that these articles do not go into Christianity as a whole or specifically deal with Christianity since these articles cover a time period before Christianity had come on to the scene. It's also important to note that Christianity itself deals with a lot more than "Mountain GOD" worship since it's really a mixed breed of various Pagan religions, cultures, oral traditions, rituals, and beliefs. However If you are looking to have a better understanding of what Yahweh is, or where Yahweh came from, these two articles also go very deep into helping you find the answer to those questions.


This first article goes over the basics to which primarily focuses on the bible and primarily in concerns to Psalms, Exodus, and the Deuteronomy. However, also covers many other sections of the bible, information about Yahweh, and supporting information to the Op's premises.

Article 1:

Yahweh: The worshiping of a Volcano / fire GOD of War.
http://matt-mattjwest.newsvine.com/_new ... god-of-war

Abstract:
I have given much thought about posting this Satanical and blasphemous article on Newsvine, and it has been a while since I have posted such an article of evil. One may believe I have been tempered in the light, but yet I have a scorching urge to post such darkness of the flaming tongue. This to which I can not ignore or resist as it burns to erupt from within. And thus I have felt in the end that this volcanic subject deserved a bit of attention for a bit of candle lit enlightenment, flickering out from the ash shadows of darkness from which this volcanic beast hides.
The second article here goes much deeper to help put the first article into a detailed understanding of Yahweh in relation to mountain GOD worship. This article covers a lot of ground that ranges from the Egyptians to modern day Abraham religions such as Judaism. :

Article 2:
Mountain GOD Worship: Yahweh, God of the Mountains.
http://matt-mattjwest.newsvine.com/_new ... -mountains

Abstract:
I remember as a child playing "King of the hill", and how when I ever laid a successful sack of the mighty mountain that I would be King of all the realms before me. Truly the most high is crowned the overlord of the kingdoms, and I would seek my wrath should my position ever had been challenged. It's a game I am sure many of us remember, but I wonder how many actually understand how true this game is to the history religion in ancient Mesopotamia. And how true it is to the wars where territories were associated with particular Mountain GOD's, all fighting to be King of the hill. This region of the world of mountain GOD's are often depicted with a father, a chief of the mountains that has often been referred to as "God of the Mountains", a crowned King and father of the GODs in ancient Mesopotamian history that has shaped Godly figures such as El, El Elyon, El Shaddia, Baal, Zeus, Yahweh, and many other mountain GOD deities throughout ancient times
Enjoy :)

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Dave B
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Re: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War

#2 Post by Dave B » November 23rd, 2012, 9:30 am

Not really bothered as to whether he was worshipped as a Volcano or a Molehill myself.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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TheJackel
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Re: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War

#3 Post by TheJackel » November 23rd, 2012, 3:40 pm

Dave B wrote:Not really bothered as to whether he was worshipped as a Volcano or a Molehill myself.
I don't see why you should be.. After all, I don't think people who worship Pele are bothered that they worship her either... People attach a persona and give a spirit to all sorts of things to which includes animals, boats, cars, or anything else they fear, don't understand, find intriguing, or like to attach themselves to :) It's called Anthropomorphism, and there is even that guy who has intimate relations with his car.. The Muslims believed Mountains have feelings and spirits as many religions have before. Heck, nothing to be bothered about regarding the worship of the spaghetti monster either.. The only time one needs to really worry is when it becomes dangerous, totalitarian, and Theocritus.. Some are theocritus and totalitarian by nature of their doctrines such as Christianity and Islam.. It's just a good thing most people don't take their religions that seriously, or really read them and take them to that level. Other than that, the Op here is just informative regarding the subject I figures some may or may not find of interest :)

Cheers!

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Dave B
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Re: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War

#4 Post by Dave B » November 23rd, 2012, 5:46 pm

I understand anthropomorphism, car and ships are always, "it, to me. Yet I will also say things like, "Come on you stupid computer!" knowing full well it makes no difference to the machine, just vents some of my pent up, negative emotional energy! :D

Anthropomorphism, or at least personification, is probably the basis for all religions when it comes to the final analysis - the angry storm of the pre-language (but far more intelligent than chimps. say) hominids maybe. Chimps and apes mostly do not give a damn about thunder, once they recognise that it is not coming to get them personally. Humans, being more intelligent (mostly :D ) also have the imagination to link things (if wrongly at times.)

Edit: in defence of the ancient hominid I should also say that I think this seeking a reason (by attributing an entity to its origin) for the storm, or whatever, is also the basis for every thing we have achieved since.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

TheJackel
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Joined: April 25th, 2011, 5:33 am

Re: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War

#5 Post by TheJackel » November 24th, 2012, 4:23 am

Dave B wrote:I understand anthropomorphism, car and ships are always, "it, to me. Yet I will also say things like, "Come on you stupid computer!" knowing full well it makes no difference to the machine, just vents some of my pent up, negative emotional energy! :D
lol..
Anthropomorphism, or at least personification, is probably the basis for all religions when it comes to the final analysis - the angry storm of the pre-language (but far more intelligent than chimps. say) hominids maybe. Chimps and apes mostly do not give a damn about thunder, once they recognise that it is not coming to get them personally.
I would agree to the first part, but I wonder about the second part :) .. It is interesting though to note that Chimps are found seemingly in awe of waterfalls and almost seem to worship them..
Humans, being more intelligent (mostly :D ) also have the imagination to link things (if wrongly at times.)
Humans I think also have more active imaginations than Chimps, so I can see where that could have led us into more fanciful beliefs.. Especially after the development of language, and more importantly, written language to which allowed us to share ideas and express them.
in defence of the ancient hominid I should also say that I think this seeking a reason (by attributing an entity to its origin) for the storm, or whatever, is also the basis for every thing we have achieved since.
Well we can't say they were "stupid" because we have to put that into context of their era and human development. Ignorance isn't stupidity or a measure of intelligence, it's just a lack of knowledge that plays a large role in shaping their beliefs and world views. Basically they didn't know what a volcano really was, and it's a pretty awe inspiring thing of intrigue, fear, and power ect. I would say the development of beliefs of GOD's almost was probably a natural reaction.. It's just sad that it often had a very negative impact that cost lives as they fought for dominance as it still does today "/ .. That's really the only sad and bad part about such religions. At some point the educated elite realized it was all nonsense and pretty much from that point on used it for wealth, power, and control. The Vatican for example. they really don't believe in any of it. Not the ones with all the power anyway..:/

Me personally, I now just find this stuff fun to learn about and debate to learn more about it :)

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Dave B
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Re: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War

#6 Post by Dave B » November 24th, 2012, 9:47 am

TJ, your comment about chimps having some sort of fascination for waterfalls is something I have not heard before, very interesting. Can't think of any rational reason for that at the moment, might look deeper into it. I have seen film of chimps sitting in thundery rain, holding a tree branch as a brolly, and simply looking pissed off - just as we would! Unless, of course, the rain represented a good opportunity for a good soaping and shower after a long, sweaty trek . . .
Well we can't say they were "stupid" because we have to put that into context of their era and human development.
Never implied that, "stupid" is a descriptor I find difficult anyway - but that's a whole other discussion. That which is normal behaviour for any creature is truly "normal", "fit for purpose" for the life they lead. We are told that humans have had the same degree of intelligence for 100ky or more, we just know more now (how much of what we know is really important is yet another discussion.)

My trouble is that after about fifty odd years of reading and thinking about this sort of thing (in a very amateurish way) I have seen so many ideas and theories built, demolished, rediscovered, explained as "modified" behaviour, analysed out of existence and so forth I have reached the point where one gets just a tad sceptical. Every theory is a construct.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

TheJackel
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Re: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War

#7 Post by TheJackel » November 24th, 2012, 10:13 am

Dave B wrote:TJ, your comment about chimps having some sort of fascination for waterfalls is something I have not heard before, very interesting. Can't think of any rational reason for that at the moment, might look deeper into it. I have seen film of chimps sitting in thundery rain, holding a tree branch as a brolly, and simply looking pissed off - just as we would! Unless, of course, the rain represented a good opportunity for a good soaping and shower after a long, sweaty trek . . .
Never implied that, "stupid" is a descriptor I find difficult anyway - but that's a whole other discussion. That which is normal behaviour for any creature is truly "normal", "fit for purpose" for the life they lead. We are told that humans have had the same degree of intelligence for 100ky or more, we just know more now (how much of what we know is really important is yet another discussion.)
Intelligence only deals with the level ability to apply knowledge.. It's not an indicator of how much we know... Hence, a very intelligent person would apply knowledge very efficiently or very well. And that usually allows us to gain more knowledge we can apply. :)
My trouble is that after about fifty odd years of reading and thinking about this sort of thing (in a very amateurish way) I have seen so many ideas and theories built, demolished, rediscovered, explained as "modified" behaviour, analysed out of existence and so forth I have reached the point where one gets just a tad sceptical. Every theory is a construct.
Reading journals usually helps you understand this.. And it really depends on what the subject is to what you are talking about.. Hence, we don't live in magical static world where nothing changes... And gaining knowledge of these things helps to understand them. And no, every theory in the scientific sense is based on a body of facts. A theory just best explains the facts.. Many theories become facts that support other theories. And well, some do fall when more data and observations come to light.. Earth isn't flat like it once was believed to be. Giving their observations at the time, they had valid reasons to believe Earth was flat... Well would you say it's flat today ? Well of course not :)

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Re: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War

#8 Post by Dave B » November 24th, 2012, 10:24 am

Thanks for the clip. Have watched it once without listening to Jane Goodall's comments. No time now but will look at it again and listen to what the good doctor has to say. Lot of it looked like typical display behaviour, maybe a touch of the Canute in there! Hoping the narration says whether or not this is a widespread behaviour.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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TheJackel
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Re: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War

#9 Post by TheJackel » November 26th, 2012, 5:30 am

Dave B wrote:Thanks for the clip. Have watched it once without listening to Jane Goodall's comments. No time now but will look at it again and listen to what the good doctor has to say. Lot of it looked like typical display behaviour, maybe a touch of the Canute in there! Hoping the narration says whether or not this is a widespread behaviour.
That would indeed be interesting to see if this behavior is wide spread or isolated.. However, she makes good points concerning how such primitive creatures without the ability convey their wonder and awe in verbal or written language is interesting. This gives some insight in regards to how the evolution of language gives rise to the ability to articulate such things we would be in awe of, in fear of, or intrigued by. So even though it she doesn't discuss whether or not this is wide spread, it gives us some insights on our past when we didn't have a complex language.

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Re: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War

#10 Post by Dave B » November 26th, 2012, 6:50 am

I am reminded of the opening scenes of "2001:A Space Odyssey" in this - barring the Monolith of course!

I have listened to Jane Goodall's narrative now and, though I cannot challenge the good doctor's knowledge and experience of course, still remain unconvinced. I wonder if she is really fully grounded where her lifetime subjects of study are concerned. I have seen the throwing of things around in other clips of chimp alphas during display behaviour. I do not doubt their ability to "wonder", they are certainly inquisitive. But a "spiritual" dimension? I would take a lot of convincing.

One Marc Bekoff seems to think they do (I have only scanned over this so far.) Others seem to think the same way as I do regarding JG and her work.

Later: I can certainly see the ancient hominids seeking cause for effect. If they carry out an action they see a result, why should there not be a cause for all the other effects in their experience - like storm, fire, death etc.? Can't see the cause as a physical entity? Then it must be some kind of non-physical entity.

But that would only go for the early hominids who had not discovered how to, say, make fire. Having made that discovery there seem to be two paths: a) it is now an established physical phenomena with a known origin and under the control of man to some degree, b) those seeking power keep the secret of how to make fire to themselves, imbuing it with a degree of mysticism.

Get where I'm going with this? :D
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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TheJackel
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Joined: April 25th, 2011, 5:33 am

Re: Yahweh: A Volcano Mountain GOD of Fire and War

#11 Post by TheJackel » July 5th, 2019, 7:34 am

I have updated my posted articles on the subject and moved them to Wordpress since Newsvine had shut down. I have also included a 3rd article "Yahweh: The Rock of Israel". The new links are as follows:

1.
YAHWEH: A VOLCANO FIRE GOD OF WAR?
https://thejackelscolumn.wordpress.com/ ... od-of-war/

2.
MOUNTAIN GOD WORSHIP: YAHWEH, GOD OF THE MOUNTAINS.
https://thejackelscolumn.wordpress.com/ ... mountains/

3.
YAHWEH: THE ROCK OF ISRAEL
https://thejackelscolumn.wordpress.com/ ... of-israel/

Cheers!

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