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Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
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Alan H
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Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#1 Post by Alan H » April 6th, 2014, 5:59 pm

More stupid comments from SelfServative Eric Pickles and another pointless poll: Eric Pickles Says Britain Is A 'Christian Nation' And Militant Atheists Should 'Get Over It'
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#2 Post by Dave B » April 6th, 2014, 7:01 pm

Pickle the Hutt is jabbering again then . . . spot the likeness?
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"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Alan H
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#3 Post by Alan H » April 7th, 2014, 3:07 pm

BHA press release: Eric Pickles’ comical intervention conceals tragically mistaken view of ‘Christian Britain’
In yet another comical intervention on the subject, Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (CLG) Eric Pickles MP has insisted that Britain is a ‘Christian nation’ and stated that ‘militant atheists’ should ‘get over’ the fact. The British Humanist Association (BHA) has responded that Mr Pickles’s remarks are ‘simply untrue’ and another example of the wilful misrepresentation of the demography of modern Britain at the highest levels of government.

Addressing the Conservative Spring Forum in London, Pickles called for atheists to stop imposing ‘politically correct intolerance on others.’ He went on to claim that he had ‘stopped an attempt by militant atheists to ban councils having prayers at the start of meetings if they wish’ (a reference to the government’s defence of allowing councils to make prayers compulsory for elected councillors).

In 2012 Pickles stated that ‘a Christian ethos strengthens our nation.’ Prior to that he suggested that the Christian faith is being disowned because of a ‘twisted tolerance’ of minority communities.

BHA Chief Executive Andrew Copson commented, ‘The Minister’s views are deeply misguided and he is simply incorrect – only a minority of people in Britain are practising Christians and over half of the population sees itself as non-religious according to repeated surveys. Although Christianity has undoubtedly had an influence on the cultural and social development of Britain, it is far from being the only influence. Many pre-Christian, non-Christian, and post-Christian forces have shaped our society for the better and Christianity has often had ill effects. So, on a purely factual level Eric Pickles remarks are simply untrue.’

‘His comical misrepresentation of reality conceals a tragic public policy error. Any politician or government that tried to make Christianity and Christian beliefs the foundation of British values or a social morality would be building on seriously unstable foundations. All the evidence is that religion makes no difference in terms of a person’s social and moral behaviour – the same percentage of religious as non-religious people do volunteer work, for example. And people certainly don’t want to see it have more influence in government – in a 2006 IpsosMori poll, “religious groups and leaders” actually topped the list of domestic groups that people said had too much influence on government.

‘His remarks are deeply concerning for anyone who values reason and evidence in public policy and fairness and secularism in our political life.’
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#4 Post by Nick » April 7th, 2014, 5:22 pm

Alan H wrote:More stupid comments from SelfServative Eric Pickles and another pointless poll: Eric Pickles Says Britain Is A 'Christian Nation' And Militant Atheists Should 'Get Over It'
He's being an ass. (Should I mention T. Blair, at this point.... :wink: ) Baroness Warsi is worse still and should be sacked.
Pickles added: "Heaven forbid. We're a Christian nation. We have an Established Church. Get over it. And don't impose your politically correct intolerance on others
We do have an Established Church (which IMO has probably weakened the influence of religion in Britain) and it depends what you mean by "Christian". As for imposing anything on anyone, how about removing the imposition to have assemblies of a religious nature in schools? Wassamatter? God isn't strong enough to fend for himself without the help of government legislation, huh?

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Altfish
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#5 Post by Altfish » April 7th, 2014, 5:46 pm

Nick wrote: He's being an ass. (Should I mention T. Blair, at this point.... :wink: ) Baroness Warsi is worse still and should be sacked.
In many ways Blair was worse than both Pickles and Warsi; at least we knew from day one that P&W are bonkers, it was only in Blair's later years as PM that we realised he was a god botherer and he prayed with Bush before making policy decisions.

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Alan H
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#6 Post by Alan H » April 7th, 2014, 7:00 pm

Nick wrote:We do have an Established Church
No we don't. Some parts of the UK do, however. :D
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Alan H
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#7 Post by Alan H » April 8th, 2014, 10:56 am

Why is Eric Pickles trying to foment trouble out of nothing?
I’m not sure I’ve ever met an actual militant atheist. But they sound scary – probably armed, and certainly dangerous. They sound like they search your house for Bibles, or stand outside churches on a Sunday morning waving placards and booing anyone who goes in. So what, exactly, is Mr Pickles concerned about? The dire threat, he told the Conservative Spring Forum, comes from those rabid Dawkins-ites who want to ban prayers at council meetings. “Heaven forbid,” he said. “We’re a Christian nation. We have an established Church. Get over it. And don’t impose your politically incorrect intolerance on others.”
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#8 Post by Dave B » April 8th, 2014, 11:31 am

Er, what is the difference between "imposing" "politically incorrect intolerance on others" by asking for prayers not to be a formal part of council meetings and "imposing" religion on others by insisting that they are?

OK, one is traditional, going back centuries probably - like feudalism, droit de seigneur, burning witches, hanging, drawing & quartering, transporting . . .

Later: why has this come up again? I have this image of the cabinet facing something embarrassing (like a minister being castigated for fiddling expenses (again!)) and looking up a list, "Now, which contentious matter have we not used as an attention diverter lately? Looks like prayers at council meetings is favourite for an airing."
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Nick
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#9 Post by Nick » April 8th, 2014, 3:24 pm

Alan H wrote:
Nick wrote:We do have an Established Church
No we don't. Some parts of the UK do, however. :D
I'm just preparing for the imminent departure of Scotland, so "we" doesn't necessarily include our brothers and sisters north of the border.... :D

lewist
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#10 Post by lewist » April 8th, 2014, 6:36 pm

England has the CoE, Scotland has the CoS, though it has fewer privileges, for example, no presence in the house of lords. They are trying to get themselves written into the constitution though, cheeky buggers.
Carpe diem. Savour every moment.

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emmacwilliams
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#11 Post by emmacwilliams » April 27th, 2014, 10:00 am

As the debate continues, this morning the actor Tom Hollander ("Rev") was on the Andrew Marr Show saying that he must be a Christian because he was brought up in a Christian country (eh?!); he also said that the church represented love so we "might as well believe in it because the alternative is despair" and that our laws are based on "Christian" values. #facepalm.
"Do not put yourself at the centre of the universe; everyone else is too busy imagining they are the centre of the universe to put you there." Raj Persaud, Staying Sane.

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Alan H
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#12 Post by Alan H » April 27th, 2014, 10:33 am

emmacwilliams wrote:As the debate continues, this morning the actor Tom Hollander ("Rev") was on the Andrew Marr Show saying that he must be a Christian because he was brought up in a Christian country (eh?!); he also said that the church represented love so we "might as well believe in it because the alternative is despair" and that our laws are based on "Christian" values. #facepalm.
Indeed. Many religionists seem to struggle with basic critical thinking!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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emmacwilliams
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#13 Post by emmacwilliams » June 14th, 2014, 7:40 am

I've recently written something for the BHA on this.

http://humanistlife.org.uk/2014/06/04/c ... h-history/
"Do not put yourself at the centre of the universe; everyone else is too busy imagining they are the centre of the universe to put you there." Raj Persaud, Staying Sane.

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Dave B
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#14 Post by Dave B » June 14th, 2014, 8:49 am

I can do little other than agree with you, Emma. Good piece.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Nick
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#15 Post by Nick » June 14th, 2014, 10:49 am

emmacwilliams wrote:As the debate continues, this morning the actor Tom Hollander ("Rev") was on the Andrew Marr Show saying that he must be a Christian because he was brought up in a Christian country (eh?!);
Jesus was born in a stable. Does that make him a horse...?
he also said that the church represented love so we "might as well believe in it because the alternative is despair" and that our laws are based on "Christian" values. #facepalm.
Still doesn't make it true, though, does it?

And I despair that he thinks the only alternative is despair!

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Altfish
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#16 Post by Altfish » June 14th, 2014, 11:49 am

emmacwilliams wrote:I've recently written something for the BHA on this.

http://humanistlife.org.uk/2014/06/04/c ... h-history/
Good article Emma :smile:

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Alan H
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#17 Post by Alan H » June 14th, 2014, 12:04 pm

emmacwilliams wrote:I've recently written something for the BHA on this.

http://humanistlife.org.uk/2014/06/04/c ... h-history/
Excellent!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Tetenterre
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#18 Post by Tetenterre » June 15th, 2014, 11:57 am

emmacwilliams wrote:I've recently written something for the BHA on this.

http://humanistlife.org.uk/2014/06/04/c ... h-history/
<me_too_ism>
I concur. Concise ant thoughtful piece.
</me_too_ism>
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Alan H
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#19 Post by Alan H » June 18th, 2014, 3:34 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Dave B
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Re: Britain Is A 'Christian Nation', apparently

#20 Post by Dave B » June 18th, 2014, 5:18 pm

And, of those Christians, I wonder how many are regular churchgoers and practice the precepts of their faith in their daily life?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015

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