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Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

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Gnostic Bishop
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Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

#1 Post by Gnostic Bishop » September 9th, 2017, 2:19 pm

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

The Gnostic wing of Christianity, if it can even be called that today, has quite a few differences to Christianity and Catholicism.

If the old Gnostic Christians were here, they would hardly recognize what has happened to the original Orthodox Catholic Church or it's various offshoots in Protestantism or Islam. The Gnostic Christian Jesus would have a fit and would be quite disappointed I think. I know that this Gnostic Christian is.

The two main differences that moved the old Christians to kill Gnostic Christians and burn their scriptures was literalism in reading scriptures and the fact that the Gnostic version of Jesus was a Universalist.

That Gnostic Christian Jesus, and the Gnostic Christians of that flavor, (there are likely as many Gnostic sects as Christian sects), sees a spark of God in all people including women and gays. That fact, to me, makes Gnostic Christianity a more desirable denomination of Christianity than all the rest.

If a religion cannot abide with equality of the sexes then to my mind it is not a just religion and is not worthy of the support of moral people. Inequality is an immoral position and most of the Abrahamic cults are of that immoral persuasion.

As the superior Catholic theology, it is my hope that Gnostic Christianity will eventually bury the non-egalitarian and immoral Christian cults as their members recognize that equality is the right moral system for all to live under.

If you have investigated Gnostic Christianity, do you agree that from a moral POV, they are the superior Christian theology thanks to equality and Universalism?

Regards
DL

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Alan H
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Re: Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

#2 Post by Alan H » September 9th, 2017, 8:06 pm

I see little in christian theology to admire, so I can't see that anything based on it would be any better.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

#3 Post by Gnostic Bishop » September 9th, 2017, 11:07 pm

Alan H wrote:I see little in christian theology to admire, so I can't see that anything based on it would be any better.
Then you should be pleased on how Gnostic Christianity interprets some of one of the Jesus' shown in scriptures. We see one Jesus created by Rome, that is the wimpy pacifist who was created to create sheeple, while the Jesus whose ways we follow wants to free us from religious traditions.

We were a part of the original orthodoxy but had a falling out when they became idol worshipers and decimated us and burned most of our scriptures.

Please take the time to look at these links. The first gives a bit of history and the second shows the type of thinking that the Jesus I follow has for us. None of our thinking includes the supernatural although the myth we wrote to put against the orthodox Christian one when everyone knew that nothing could be known of the supernatural.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

The bottom line, so to speak, is that we, like the Karaite Jews, put man above God.

Regards
DL

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Alan H
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Re: Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

#4 Post by Alan H » September 9th, 2017, 11:54 pm

I really can't see it as anything but a sterile argument for historians.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Nick
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Re: Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

#5 Post by Nick » September 10th, 2017, 8:46 am

Alan H wrote:I really can't see it as anything but a sterile argument for historians.
I don't think historians would be very pleased to hear their subject described as sterile, Alan!

Nick
Posts: 11027
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 10:10 am

Re: Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

#6 Post by Nick » September 10th, 2017, 9:13 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?
Er... no. Not even heard of it. But by describing itself as Gnostic, knowing, it is making gret claims.
The Gnostic wing of Christianity, if it can even be called that today, has quite a few differences to Christianity and Catholicism.
OK, tell us more..
If the old Gnostic Christians were here, they would hardly recognize what has happened to the original Orthodox Catholic Church or it's various offshoots in Protestantism or Islam.
I thin anyone from so long ago would be gobsmacked by the world in general!
The Gnostic Christian Jesus would have a fit and would be quite disappointed I think. I know that this Gnostic Christian is.
Doesn't every Christian think s/he's hand in hand with Jesus...?
The two main differences that moved the old Christians to kill Gnostic Christians and burn their scriptures was literalism in reading scriptures and the fact that the Gnostic version of Jesus was a Universalist.
Christians have always killed other Christians, it seems, more or less as soon as the Romans stopped killing them. As for burning their scriptures, can you tell us more? Are there any extant Gnostic scriptures? And most christians these days are universalist, aren't they? Not so many threaten people with Hell as in tmes past. Even though Jesus, according to the Bile, was not a universalist.
That Gnostic Christian Jesus, and the Gnostic Christians of that flavor, (there are likely as many Gnostic sects as Christian sects),
...so they have no real idea either
sees a spark of God in all people including women and gays.
"All people" generally includes women and gays... :laughter:
That fact, to me, makes Gnostic Christianity a more desirable denomination of Christianity than all the rest.
So, a free pass to heaven, even for non-believers. Job done. No need to bother believing anything any more, is there?
If a religion cannot abide with equality of the sexes then to my mind it is not a just religion
Surely the whole point of religions is that they promote themselves as belief in that is, not a belief in what would be rather nice if at all possible?
and is not worthy of the support of moral people.
So religion comes after morality, then? Turning the whole of Christianity on it's head? Assuming we can agree on any idea of morality. One equality tends to contradict another.
Inequality is an immoral position and most of the Abrahamic cults are of that immoral persuasion.
Can we have some sort of definition of inequality, please? And of morality? And why is your cult not a cult?
As the superior Catholic theology, it is my hope that Gnostic Christianity will eventually bury the non-egalitarian and immoral Christian cults as their members recognize that equality is the right moral system for all to live under.
Don't bet the farm on it. religion is dying as the world develops.
If you have investigated Gnostic Christianity, do you agree that from a moral POV, they are the superior Christian theology thanks to equality and Universalism?
I haven't, but from your description, no I wouldn't. IMHO, all theology is equally bunk, (there's some equality for you, DL!) being based on human fabrication and superstition.

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Alan H
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Re: Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

#7 Post by Alan H » September 10th, 2017, 11:32 am

Nick wrote:
Alan H wrote:I really can't see it as anything but a sterile argument for historians.
I don't think historians would be very pleased to hear their subject described as sterile, Alan!
Probably not. But that's not what I said.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 151
Joined: October 20th, 2014, 11:52 pm

Re: Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

#8 Post by Gnostic Bishop » September 10th, 2017, 3:41 pm

Alan H wrote:I really can't see it as anything but a sterile argument for historians.
Then you do not see well.

One ideology is moral and the other is not.

Regards
DL

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Alan H
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Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 10:26 pm

Re: Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

#9 Post by Alan H » September 10th, 2017, 3:51 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Alan H wrote:I really can't see it as anything but a sterile argument for historians.
Then you do not see well.

One ideology is moral and the other is not.

Regards
DL
I see well enough, thank you. But it is still a sterile argument.
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Posts: 151
Joined: October 20th, 2014, 11:52 pm

Re: Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

#10 Post by Gnostic Bishop » September 10th, 2017, 7:56 pm

Nick wrote:[
quote="Gnostic Bishop"]Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?
Er... no. Not even heard of it. But by describing itself as Gnostic, knowing, it is making gret claims.
Thinking and believing that man can know himself at the deepest levels is hardly a great claim as most know that they know a bit about themselves. We are basically saying that we can know more. I do not see that as a great leap or claim.
The Gnostic wing of Christianity, if it can even be called that today, has quite a few differences to Christianity and Catholicism.
OK, tell us more..

We are Universalists.
We cannot be homophobic or misogynous like the mainstream religions like Christianity and Islam since we consider all souls/people to be equal before the law.
We do not kowtow to invisible supernatural constructs as we do not hold any supernatural beliefs.
As esoteric ecumenists, we are free to accept the wisdom in law from all sources and not have to relate back to some imaginary God.
We allow ourselves to accept modern standards instead of looking to a barbaric ancient times for guidance unless it is inferior to how the ancients thought. To name a few issues.
If the old Gnostic Christians were here, they would hardly recognize what has happened to the original Orthodox Catholic Church or it's various offshoots in Protestantism or Islam.
I thin anyone from so long ago would be gobsmacked by the world in general!
No argument against this.
The Gnostic Christian Jesus would have a fit and would be quite disappointed I think. I know that this Gnostic Christian is.
Doesn't every Christian think s/he's hand in hand with Jesus...?
Many have that self-deception, yes, but it is belied by Jesus' words that say that any true believer could do what he did and more. Note that no Christian has ever reached the plateau of real belief. If one had, we would all know it.
The two main differences that moved the old Christians to kill Gnostic Christians and burn their scriptures was literalism in reading scriptures and the fact that the Gnostic version of Jesus was a Universalist.
Christians have always killed other Christians, it seems, more or less as soon as the Romans stopped killing them. As for burning their scriptures, can you tell us more? Are there any extant Gnostic scriptures?
There are Gnostic Christian documentation.

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

This clip speak of the transition that Christianity did from God seekers to idol worshipers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D
And most christians these days are universalist, aren't they?
No. They have a divisive heaven and hell. Hardly a Universalist religion where all are saved. Not that there was ever a God who condemned us. That false guilt is a religious ploy to lock believers into their religions. Religions are in the false guilt creating business for which they, of course, have the cure.
Not so many threaten people with Hell as in tmes past. Even though Jesus, according to the Bile, was not a universalist.
That depends on the Jesus you see in scriptures. There is more than one. You have the Rome created pacifist and you also have an esoteric mystical Jesus that uses language like what follows, which the church never talks about.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Note that he does not restrict his way and method for anyone and that makes it a universal way open to all.
That Gnostic Christian Jesus, and the Gnostic Christians of that flavor, (there are likely as many Gnostic sects as Christian sects),
...so they have no real idea either
We show a method of spiritual growth and do not expect that diverse minds will see all things the same way at the same point in time.
sees a spark of God in all people including women and gays.
"All people" generally includes women and gays... :laughter:
Yes, but I speak of it because Christianity and Islam make second class citizens out of gays and women.
That fact, to me, makes Gnostic Christianity a more desirable denomination of Christianity than all the rest.
So, a free pass to heaven, even for non-believers. Job done. No need to bother believing anything any more, is there?
If you do not want to believe anything, go ahead.
If a religion cannot abide with equality of the sexes then to my mind it is not a just religion
Surely the whole point of religions is that they promote themselves as belief in that is, not a belief in what would be rather nice if at all possible?
Sure but the idol worshipers use lies and violence to grow their religions while Gnostic Christians use argument. If the idol worshipers had decent arguments that were convincing, then they would not have had to use violence. Right?
and is not worthy of the support of moral people.
So religion comes after morality, then? Turning the whole of Christianity on it's head? Assuming we can agree on any idea of morality. One equality tends to contradict another.
No. Morality should trump religions but that is not the case where Christianity and Islam are concerned. Hence their homophobia and misogyny.

I do not agree with your last as 75%0f us basically follow some type of reciprocity rule although religions tend to ignore the Golden Rule when convenient.
Inequality is an immoral position and most of the Abrahamic cults are of that immoral persuasion.
Can we have some sort of definition of inequality, please? And of morality? And why is your cult not a cult?
I did not say that Gnostic Christianity was not a cult. All religions are cults in the sense of all just being tribal units.

For inequality, and it's definition, it is well defined by Webster's and no new definition is required.

Morality is also well defined so I do not have to redefine it.
As the superior Catholic theology, it is my hope that Gnostic Christianity will eventually bury the non-egalitarian and immoral Christian cults as their members recognize that equality is the right moral system for all to live under.
Don't bet the farm on it. religion is dying as the world develops.
In the West, yes. Not so in other less developed areas.
If you have investigated Gnostic Christianity, do you agree that from a moral POV, they are the superior Christian theology thanks to equality and Universalism?
I haven't, but from your description, no I wouldn't. IMHO, all theology is equally bunk, (there's some equality for you, DL!) being based on human fabrication and superstition.
[/quote]

As all religions are, but to say that a religion that does not discriminate against gays and women is no better than one that does says that your moral sense is quite poor.

Regards
DL

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