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Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

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Dave B
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#21 Post by Dave B » September 3rd, 2011, 9:34 am

Latest post of the previous page:

Fia wrote: :pointlaugh:
And just how difficult is getting less and fewer correct?
Yes I agree, less people probably get this thing right than wrong.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Nick
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#22 Post by Nick » September 3rd, 2011, 1:08 pm

But less is more. :D

Fia
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#23 Post by Fia » September 3rd, 2011, 1:13 pm

Just popping in to share another one that's been grating on me today : book, when one actually means magazine or catalogue... [-X

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Tetenterre
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#24 Post by Tetenterre » September 3rd, 2011, 2:32 pm

Just bought a packet of yeast from the Co-op. I should have read the label more carefully. It says, "For hand baking or bread machines." Damn! I wanted to bake some bread, not my hand.
Steve

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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#25 Post by Maria Mac » September 3rd, 2011, 3:07 pm

:pointlaugh:

I hate, hate, HATE it when people say "it begs the question" when they mean "it raises the question - in my mind, at least - and probably in the minds of many others". This is so common from journalists and even Tony Robinson from BBC Time Team said it today. :angry:

One I used to hate but am becoming desensitised to because it seems to have become standard American English, is the use of "would have" in the first half of Type 3 conditional sentences. I also confess to being shocked when I first heard (from the mouth of someone some of us know and love on this forum :wink: ) the mixing of perfect and past tenses but I've now heard this so many times from people with many different dialects that I've got used to it.

Thus, a sentence like:

"If you would have been me, you would have did the same,"

no longer irritates me. Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing. Still feel it for "5 items or less", though.

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animist
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#26 Post by animist » September 3rd, 2011, 3:30 pm

Athena wrote::pointlaugh:


One I used to hate but am becoming desensitised to because it seems to have become standard American English, is the use of "would have" in the first half of Type 3 conditional sentences.
Thus, a sentence like:

"If you would have been me, you would have did the same,"

no longer irritates me.
oh I hate that too, don't give up! It seems just wrong, because the antecedent part (straight after the "if") relates to something that actually was or was not the case (in this case, you were not me)

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Tetenterre
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#27 Post by Tetenterre » September 3rd, 2011, 3:44 pm

Athena wrote::pointlaugh:

I hate, hate, HATE it when people say "it begs the question" when they mean "it raises the question - in my mind, at least - and probably in the minds of many others". This is so common from journalists and even Tony Robinson from BBC Time Team said it today. :angry:
That grates on me as well. The other one that I classify with it in my mind-catalogue of misuse is the misuse of "second guess" when the speaker means "guess". A close ally is the use of "exception proves the rule" as if "proves" means "verifies" instead of "tests". Aaargh!
One I used to hate but am becoming desensitised to because it seems to have become standard American English...
The way I cope with that sort of thing is merely to accept that it's not English, it's a different language (Merkinese) that uses some of the same words as English, often with different meanings and spellings. Like "guard". To us, it's someone who protects or imprisons something, in Merkinese it's what atheists don't believe in. Or "error"; in Merkinese it is not a mistake, but a period of time like "Mesozoic" or "Victorian". :wink:

Anyone else irritated by the misplaced modifiers that infest radio reporting nowadays?

Or the use of plural verb-forms with singular collective nouns?

I love being a grumpy old man!
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Dave B
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#28 Post by Dave B » September 3rd, 2011, 4:23 pm

There is a phrase that I have seen some very well known writers use incorrectly, "to coin a phrase." It is often used where, "to quote a cliché," would be correct. To "coin" something, in this context, is to invent it!
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thundril
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#29 Post by thundril » September 3rd, 2011, 4:59 pm

And just when sports commentators seem to have given up the time-honoured tradition of starting every sentence with 'And', .. . Techies and economists have started prefacing explanations with 'So.' What's that for?

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Alan H
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#30 Post by Alan H » September 3rd, 2011, 5:02 pm

Athena wrote: :pointlaugh:

I hate, hate, HATE it when people say "it begs the question" when they mean "it raises the question...
:rolleyes: Tell me about it...
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There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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animist
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#31 Post by animist » September 3rd, 2011, 7:05 pm

Tetenterre wrote:The way I cope with that sort of thing is merely to accept that it's not English, it's a different language (Merkinese) that uses some of the same words as English, often with different meanings and spellings. Like "guard". To us, it's someone who protects or imprisons something, in Merkinese it's what atheists don't believe in. Or "error"; in Merkinese it is not a mistake, but a period of time like "Mesozoic" or "Victorian". :wink:

Anyone else irritated by the misplaced modifiers that infest radio reporting nowadays?

Or the use of plural verb-forms with singular collective nouns?

I love being a grumpy old man!
this grumpy old man needs some examples of these misplaced modifiers! Your being a grumpy old old man is not an example of plural verb-forms with singular collective nouns, is it? And what is Merkinese? - sorry, I just don't get your examples, and sorrier still if I have missed something wot you wrote.

A couple of these hates are making me realise that I do not know how the phrase originated.

1 Beg the question: the fallacy of petitio principii, or "begging the question", is committed "when a proposition which requires proof is assumed without proof", or more generally denotes when an assumption is used, "in some form of the very proposition to be proved, as a premise from which to deduce it". Thus, insofar as petitio principii refers to arguing for a conclusion that has already been assumed in the premise, this fallacy consists of "begging" the listener to accept the "question" (proposition) before the labor of logic is undertaken. The fallacy may be committed in various ways.

2 Second-guess
vb Informal
1. to criticize or evaluate with hindsight
2. to attempt to anticipate or predict (a person or thing)

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Dave B
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#32 Post by Dave B » September 3rd, 2011, 7:13 pm

TT, your "Merkinese" sounds rather like an American dialect -

"Guard preserve us in this error of sinfulness that we live in!"
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Dave B
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#33 Post by Dave B » September 3rd, 2011, 7:15 pm

It has just dawned on me that a merkin is a pubic wig! :laughter:
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Tetenterre
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#34 Post by Tetenterre » September 3rd, 2011, 8:05 pm

Dave B wrote:It has just dawned on me that a merkin is a pubic wig! :laughter:
Yes. It's also the given name of the US president (Merkin Muffley) in Dr Strangelove. In this context, however, it's derived from what Dumbya frequently proclaimed in what sounded like his "War on Tourism": i.e. "I'm proud to be a Merkin!"
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Dave B
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#35 Post by Dave B » September 3rd, 2011, 8:10 pm

Tetenterre wrote:
Dave B wrote:It has just dawned on me that a merkin is a pubic wig! :laughter:
Yes. It's also the given name of the US president (Merkin Muffley) in Dr Strangelove. In this context, however, it's derived from what Dumbya frequently proclaimed in what sounded like his "War on Tourism": i.e. "I'm proud to be a Merkin!"
Yup, the similarity between "Merkin" and "American" seeped its way into my brain just before you posted!

:headbang:
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Tetenterre
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#36 Post by Tetenterre » September 3rd, 2011, 8:12 pm

animist wrote:this grumpy old man needs some examples of these misplaced modifiers!
"Our news team filed this report on the soldiers being attacked just before they flew back to the Doha newsroom."

"Most parents realise that even if their children are in a maintained school they will have to pay extra costs for trips, etc."
Steve

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getreal
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#37 Post by getreal » September 4th, 2011, 1:03 am

not grammar, but the common misquote "..cheap at half the price..."

Of course! ANYTHING would be cheap if it was half price!
"It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on his head"-Tyrion Lannister.

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Dave B
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#38 Post by Dave B » September 4th, 2011, 9:39 am

getreal wrote:not grammar, but the common misquote "..cheap at half the price..."

Of course! ANYTHING would be cheap if it was half price!
I have always taken that to be simply jocular.
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#39 Post by animist » September 4th, 2011, 10:51 am

Dave B wrote:
getreal wrote:not grammar, but the common misquote "..cheap at half the price..."

Of course! ANYTHING would be cheap if it was half price!
I have always taken that to be simply jocular.
yes, surely it should mean cheap at twice the price (ie incredibly cheap now), and I don't think anyone understands this saying:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-che1.htm

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Dave B
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#40 Post by Dave B » September 4th, 2011, 11:46 am

animist wrote:
Dave B wrote:
getreal wrote:not grammar, but the common misquote "..cheap at half the price..."

Of course! ANYTHING would be cheap if it was half price!
I have always taken that to be simply jocular.
yes, surely it should mean cheap at twice the price (ie incredibly cheap now), and I don't think anyone understands this saying:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-che1.htm
Looks like one of those phrases that you can interpret according to your personality or mood! Glass half full/empty type. A friend claimed that the half empty glass was on its way for a refill.

Not in this class, and probably :offtopic: but, back in the days when I smoked, asking for, "Six number twenty tipped please," usually had the server doing a double take. Change the order of a couple of words and watch the confusion!
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#41 Post by Tetenterre » September 4th, 2011, 2:17 pm

Dave B wrote: "Six number twenty tipped please,"
2kg Special Fried Rice with gratuity/service-charge included?
Steve

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