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Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

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Tetenterre
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#81 Post by Tetenterre » January 6th, 2012, 4:20 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Dave B wrote:
Tetenterre wrote:I think I have offered the following before, that boss I mentioned seemed to think it would be useful . . . I think he was serious!
Well, I for one am more impressed with its heuristic isomorphic capability than with its reciprocal reciprocal obsolescence. (BTW, did you notice that isomorphic and regression each occur twice in the middle column?)
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Dave B
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#82 Post by Dave B » January 6th, 2012, 4:24 pm

Tetenterre wrote:
Dave B wrote:
Tetenterre wrote:I think I have offered the following before, that boss I mentioned seemed to think it would be useful . . . I think he was serious!
Well, I for one am more impressed with its heuristic isomorphic capability than with its reciprocal reciprocal obsolescence. (BTW, did you notice that isomorphic and regression each occur twice in the middle column?)
I scanned that in and it would not "columnate" correctly, some words ended up in the wrong column somehow. I must have looked over it ten times trying to get rid of duplicates! Thanks, TT, I will correct the original.

BTW, I think you can get even more by doing columns 2 - 1 - 3 in many cases!

Updated, with an extra line (there was another duplicated word I spotted - any more?)
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Sel
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#83 Post by Sel » January 6th, 2012, 6:00 pm

Evangelicals discuss "planting and growing a church" HUH?? :puzzled: That drives me to distraction.
"The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge." Bertrand Russell

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Tetenterre
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#84 Post by Tetenterre » January 28th, 2012, 3:19 pm

"The reason (...) is because (...)"
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Alan H
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#85 Post by Alan H » January 28th, 2012, 4:24 pm

Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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animist
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#86 Post by animist » February 1st, 2012, 4:21 pm

I hate "least worst", which should have been "least bad" but always seems to be used instead of it

People say things like "As good as this is, it could be better", but I feel the first "as" is redundant and a newcomer - yes?

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Dave B
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#87 Post by Dave B » February 1st, 2012, 5:00 pm

animist wrote:I hate "least worst", which should have been "least bad" but always seems to be used instead of it

People say things like "As good as this is, it could be better", but I feel the first "as" is redundant and a newcomer - yes?
Not sure about the first of those meself.

"He was the least worse choice," seems to fit better between, "He was the worst..." and "He was the best..." than "He was the least bad..." I keep wanting to write "baddest"! Is "least worse" the same as "least best"?

Leaving the "As" out still leaves a coherent sentence - and some say the least words the better! Somehow, though, I want to keep changing it to "Good though this is . . .", "As good as . . ." or "Good as . . ." seems an ambivalent phrasing - or is that just the editor in me?

Oh, talking about coherent: in a story I just finished a character "... gave an incoherent wave of the hand." Just word inflation for "unclear" or "incomprehensible"?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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animist
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#88 Post by animist » February 1st, 2012, 5:54 pm

Dave B wrote:
animist wrote:I hate "least worst", which should have been "least bad" but always seems to be used instead of it

People say things like "As good as this is, it could be better", but I feel the first "as" is redundant and a newcomer - yes?
Not sure about the first of those meself.

"He was the least worse choice," seems to fit better between, "He was the worst..." and "He was the best..." than "He was the least bad..." I keep wanting to write "baddest"! Is "least worse" the same as "least best"?
surely "least worst" (or "least worse" which is what you've said, or FTM "least best") is simply ungrammatical and almost self-contradictory. "Least bad" surely means that he was not that good but that the others were worse - damning with faint praise, I suppose; "least good" means he was the worst, but maybe that he was not too bad

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Tetenterre
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#89 Post by Tetenterre » February 1st, 2012, 7:12 pm

As Tony Nagle drummed into my skull 50-odd years ago, you don't qualify absolutes -- and "worst" is an absolute. The end. :D
Steve

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Dave B
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#90 Post by Dave B » February 1st, 2012, 7:30 pm

Tetenterre wrote:As Tony Nagle drummed into my skull 50-odd years ago, you don't qualify absolutes -- and "worst" is an absolute. The end. :D
:notworthy:
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animist
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#91 Post by animist » February 2nd, 2012, 9:52 am

so can I take that as agreement, Dave? Afterthought about "least good - a case of praising by faint damns (I think my former boss said this once!)

Just to reinforce what TNT said, my dad used to react when Denis Compton described, as he often did, batsmen's strokes as "most perfect", but that is another phrase which is now often used

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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#92 Post by Nick » February 2nd, 2012, 10:04 am

Dave B wrote:Leaving the "As" out still leaves a coherent sentence - and some say the least words the better!
Err... that should be "fewest". :D

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animist
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#93 Post by animist » February 2nd, 2012, 10:09 am

Nick wrote:
Dave B wrote:Leaving the "As" out still leaves a coherent sentence - and some say the least words the better!
Err... that should be "fewest". :D
or should that be "fewer"? :wave: from deep inside my own rectum (or should that be anus?)

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Emma Woolgatherer
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#94 Post by Emma Woolgatherer » February 2nd, 2012, 10:14 am

animist wrote:I hate "least worst", which should have been "least bad" but always seems to be used instead of it
I suppose there might be a semi-legitimate usage. "Least worst" could be a shorthand for something like "the least bad of the worst few". Of the ten worst places to live in the UK, Manchester is the least worst. But yes, in general, people mean "the best of a bad bunch", which is a much more pleasing expression.

Emma

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animist
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#95 Post by animist » February 2nd, 2012, 10:15 am

Emma Woolgatherer wrote:
animist wrote:I hate "least worst", which should have been "least bad" but always seems to be used instead of it
I suppose there might be a semi-legitimate usage. "Least worst" could be a shorthand for something like "the least bad of the worst few". Of the ten worst places to live in the UK, Manchester is the least worst. But yes, in general, people mean "the best of a bad bunch", which is a much more pleasing expression.

Emma
I think you should make a wave too

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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#96 Post by Emma Woolgatherer » February 2nd, 2012, 10:17 am

Oh, that reminds me of my latest pet peeve: "fewer emissions". Ludicrous!

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Dave B
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#97 Post by Dave B » February 2nd, 2012, 10:32 am

How do you feel about that no-no when I was at school, "got"? We were always told that it was better to have to use several words rather than use "got". Is it the guttural sound that put the teachers off I wonder? Too Teutonic sounding?

"Do you understand that?" is perhaps to be preferred to "Have you got that?", though I have heard FE college English Language instructors use the latter.

"Gotten" is usually dismissed as an Americanism, but is actually well rooted in Old English. But then, the American language is older than the nation that speaks it!!

Are we victims of language fashion?
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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#98 Post by animist » February 2nd, 2012, 10:44 am

Dave B wrote:How do you feel about that no-no when I was at school, "got"? We were always told that it was better to have to use several words rather than use "got". Is it the guttural sound that put the teachers off I wonder? Too Teutonic sounding?

"Do you understand that?" is perhaps to be preferred to "Have you got that?", though I have heard FE college English Language instructors use the latter.

"Gotten" is usually dismissed as an Americanism, but is actually well rooted in Old English. But then, the American language is older than the nation that speaks it!!

Are we victims of language fashion?
the "got" question has already come up in this thread and in another one some weeks ago; I don't see the problem with it - both "get" and "got" are versatile and easily spelt.

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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#99 Post by animist » February 2nd, 2012, 10:47 am

Emma Woolgatherer wrote:Oh, that reminds me of my latest pet peeve: "fewer emissions". Ludicrous!
yes, I assume it should be "lower" if the context is greenhouse gases rather than male orgasms

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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#100 Post by animist » February 2nd, 2012, 1:22 pm

animist wrote:
Emma Woolgatherer wrote:Oh, that reminds me of my latest pet peeve: "fewer emissions". Ludicrous!
yes, I assume it should be "lower" if the context is greenhouse gases rather than male orgasms
(later) - just got your link, Emma!

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Re: Grammer and phrases wot is irritating

#101 Post by Emma Woolgatherer » February 2nd, 2012, 4:42 pm

Dave B wrote:How do you feel about that no-no when I was at school, "got"? We were always told that it was better to have to use several words rather than use "got". Is it the guttural sound that put the teachers off I wonder? Too Teutonic sounding?
I think this is a case of overcorrection. Teachers used to tell us off for saying, "Look what I got!" when we meant "Look what I have!" rather than "Look what I obtained!" That's a genuine matter of grammatical error. Though personally it's not one that bothers me. (And imagine changing the Gershwin song "I Got Rhythm" to "I Have Rhythm", or Nina Simone's "Ain't Got No/I Got Life" to "Don't Have Any/I Have Life".)

But what happens is that some people (including some teachers) end up thinking that they shouldn't say "got" in any circumstances, because it's "wrong" or sounds "common" or "ugly".

I think it's similar to the case where people avoid saying "me", and end up making a grammatical error, as in "between you and I".

Must dash. Got to get to the post office. More later.

Emma

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