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The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

Any topics that are primarily about humanism or other non-religious life stances fit in here.
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Nick
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#41 Post by Nick » October 23rd, 2008, 3:56 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Is that some kind of spread-bet option, Paolo? :D

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Alan H
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#42 Post by Alan H » October 23rd, 2008, 4:04 pm

Someone has just made a video...
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Paolo
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#43 Post by Paolo » October 23rd, 2008, 4:14 pm

Nick wrote:Is that some kind of spread-bet option, Paolo? :D
It all depends on how many more people feel like donating £1,000 at a time. If it carries on at the present rate (around £1500 per hour) it should actually be about 5am that the target is reached, but I expect there to be a bit of a lull overnight, then a burst of activity in the morning as the figure approaches £100,000. 9am is the latest I would expect £100,000 to be reached and 7am is the earliest I'd expect it.

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Alan C.
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#44 Post by Alan C. » October 23rd, 2008, 5:29 pm

Alan H wrote:Someone has just made a video...
^^^Brilliant^^^
Yesterday I found it (The Atheist Bus Campaign) in 39 different worldwide publications, including Australia, Spain, Italy, portugal, and France.
Who said "you can't herd cats"? :smile:
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Alan H
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#45 Post by Alan H » October 24th, 2008, 12:48 am

Now at £91,232.00. Will it make £100,000?
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

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Paolo
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#46 Post by Paolo » October 24th, 2008, 9:01 am

So much for my prediction, it's almost 9am and we're "only" on £92,448.61 (plus £19,230.71 from giftaid). The rate of increase has tailed off, clearly my prediction of yesterday was based on too simple a model.

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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#47 Post by Maria Mac » October 24th, 2008, 1:14 pm

Edward Hawkins wrote:
Maria wrote:I would prefer something like 'so make sure you make the most of life'.
I would prefer something like 'There is no god - get over it!'

Edward the Atheist
If they'd had something like that, I wouldn't have donated. I've seen quite a few comments like this and have got drawn into a squabble on iidb over it. What is the point of having a rude and dogmatic statement which, though it may be enjoyed by many atheists, will make many others of us embarrassed and uncomfortable?

The total now stands at £95,302.00 :)

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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#48 Post by Maria Mac » October 24th, 2008, 5:15 pm

*drumroll*
£100,231.60
:party: :happyclappy: :clap: :dance:

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Alan C.
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#49 Post by Alan C. » October 24th, 2008, 7:53 pm

I think the BHA should approach a few ice cream vendors, and get the slogan on their vans, the religions have the right (wrong) idea, "catch them young" A bit of retaliation would be good.
Nice to see the total is still climbing :smile:

As for "There is no god, get over it" I doubt if the ASA would allow that.
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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Fran
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Bus slogan campaign

#50 Post by Fran » October 24th, 2008, 10:16 pm

Is anyone else concerned about the campaign to post atheist slogans on London buses? I believe it's going to be something like: 'God probably doesn't exist, so go on, enjoy your life'. I may have got it slightly wrong, but I've always despised wayside pulpits, and I feel this is going to drag us down to that level. Also, although to say God probably doesn't exist is scientifically safe and correct, but it dilutes the message, makes others think we're not really sure. Also, To say 'go on, enjoy your life' is giving a slightly frivolous take on our claim to be thoughtful, concerned and caring human beings, although among ourselves I'm sure we'd agree that there's no point in wasting the one life we have. But there again, there's no philosophical reason why you can't be an atheist and believe in some form of after-life, although probably most of us don't. But Buddha was an atheist, wasn't he?

All in all, I think this campaign is misguided. Richard Dawkins is involved, and I understand that Theos, a church charity, has donated £50 on the grounds that it will make people think, and once they've thought, turn to Jesus!

What does anyone else think?

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Alan C.
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Re: Bus slogan campaign

#51 Post by Alan C. » October 24th, 2008, 10:29 pm

You need to go to this thread Fran where it is being discussed extensively. :smile:
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Fran
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#52 Post by Fran » October 24th, 2008, 10:30 pm

Apologies - I started a new thread on this subject without noticing the existing one - and I'm glad to see that you're all (mostly) more upbeat about it than I am. However, if a new slogan is required, I reckon Nietzsche's takes some beating: 'God's only excuse is that he doesn't exist'.

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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#53 Post by Maria Mac » October 24th, 2008, 10:59 pm

I've merged the two threads. :)

Edward Hawkins
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#54 Post by Edward Hawkins » October 25th, 2008, 8:38 am

Maria wrote:
Edward Hawkins wrote:
Maria wrote:I would prefer something like 'so make sure you make the most of life'.
I would prefer something like 'There is no god - get over it!'

Edward the Atheist
If they'd had something like that, I wouldn't have donated. I've seen quite a few comments like this and have got drawn into a squabble on iidb over it. What is the point of having a rude and dogmatic statement that, though it may be enjoyed by many atheists, will make many others of us embarrassed and uncomfortable?
In that case, how about a slogan "We Humanists think that there might not be a god, but we are not sure. We are sorry if this offends those of faith"

Why call it the Atheist Bus Campaign? Surely it should be the Agnostic Bus Campaign.

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Alan H
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#55 Post by Alan H » October 25th, 2008, 10:29 am

It even got a mention on Have I got news for you last night!
Alan Henness

There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:

1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?

Gottard
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#56 Post by Gottard » October 25th, 2008, 10:46 am

For those concerned with "has money been put to good use":
Niccolo` Machiavelli said
"All armed prophets have been victorious, and all unarmed prophets have been destroyed"
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

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Emma Woolgatherer
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#57 Post by Emma Woolgatherer » October 25th, 2008, 11:21 am

Edward Hawkins wrote:Why call it the Atheist Bus Campaign? Surely it should be the Agnostic Bus Campaign.
Nah, an Agnostic Bus Campaign would have: "We don't know whether there are any gods, and we never shall know. So let's just stop bickering about it and get on with our lives."

I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of the Atheist Bus Campaign, or the slogan they're using. It's not just the "probably"; I also agree with Maria about the second part of the slogan. "So stop worrying and enjoy your life" sounds presumptuous, bossy and insensitive towards those who have plenty of reasons for worrying that have absolutely nothing to do with God.

Still, the success of the fund-raising does suggest that the organisers picked an effective approach. The kind of slogan I'd have preferred wouldn't have worked so well, I'm sure. I'd have wanted something both more strongly atheistic and more positively humanistic, something along the lines of:

[center]Gods are not real. Imaginative people made them up. Let's make the most of life in the real world, imagine a better world, and try to make it real.[/center]
Yeah, yeah, I know. Too utopian. Too Lennonesque. Too wordy. Too worthy. No pixie in the sky, but plenty of pie ...

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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#58 Post by peterangus » October 25th, 2008, 11:34 am

Would this catch-on?
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Maria Mac
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#59 Post by Maria Mac » October 25th, 2008, 1:07 pm

Edward Hawkins wrote:
Maria wrote:
Edward Hawkins wrote: I would prefer something like 'There is no god - get over it!'

Edward the Atheist
If they'd had something like that, I wouldn't have donated. I've seen quite a few comments like this and have got drawn into a squabble on iidb over it. What is the point of having a rude and dogmatic statement that, though it may be enjoyed by many atheists, will make many others of us embarrassed and uncomfortable?
In that case, how about a slogan "We Humanists think that there might not be a god, but we are not sure. We are sorry if this offends those of faith"

Why call it the Atheist Bus Campaign? Surely it should be the Agnostic Bus Campaign.
It seems I have been labouring under a misapprehension all my life about what the word 'atheism' actually means. I had always understood atheism to be the position of not believing in a god/believing there is no god. I didn't realise that atheists actually know there isn't a god and that they are in a position to state this categorically and with the same standard of evidence they demand of theists. This does raise a couple of questions in my mind, like how did you come by this knowledge? And why doesn't Richard Dawkins himself, who is frequently hailed as some sort of militant atheist guru, make the same categorical statement?

In any event, I am happy to renounce atheism - seeing as I was evidently never one in the first place - and not use the label about myself again.

By the way, this isn't about fear of offending theists - I spend a lot of time on other websites doing exactly that, though I rarely feel the need to stoop to the bald rudeness of telling theists to 'get over it'. The slogan as it stands, even with the 'probably', will offend many theists and I'm fine with that. Nor does it mean we are 'unsure' or 'indecisive' (as Ian Hislop said last night).

What it's about is, firstly, staying on the intellectual high ground precisely because, unlike theists (and some atheists obviously), we shouldn't make dogmatic assertions as if they are unquestionably true even though they can't be proven. As Fran says, it is scientifically correct and I think that's how it should be. I spend a lot of time arguing against all kinds of nonsense on the grounds that it can't be scientifically proven and I'm not about to abandon that criterion just to appease atheist sensibilities. We are sure - but we can't prove it and don't need the distraction of the inevitable challenges to do so. Secondly, as I understand it, the message is that what actually matters is not whether there is a god or not but that this is the only life we can know we have, so don't waste it. As I said before, I think the second half of the slogan could have been expressed better but it is humanist in intent and I would disassociate myself from any slogan that claimed absolute certainty where absolute certainty isn't humanly possible.

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SkiCarver
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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#60 Post by SkiCarver » October 25th, 2008, 2:16 pm

Maria, on the question of 'knowing' there is no god.

It is a matter of the burden of proof. Do you 'know' that the world is round? Do you 'know' that something still exists when you personally cannot see it? At some point there is a stage where the evidence is such that we can feel confident that we 'know' something. I feel that I 'know' that the idea of god is a work of humans. Obviously, there is always room to be convinced otherwise, just like if someoe finds a colony of fairies.
Atheist by choice, dyslexic by the grace of dog.

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Re: The Atheist Bus Campaign - is it a good use of money?

#61 Post by Gottard » October 25th, 2008, 2:54 pm

as I understand it, the message is that what actually matters is not whether there is a god or not but that this is the only life we can know we have, so don't waste it.
Not even that is certain Maria! I am sure an Oriental religion (can't remember which) dogmatically says that we have many lives. In my opinion the honest answer is: do believe what you genuinely feel inside yourself. Most people, unfortunately, delegate this effort to someone else.

My preferred philosophy: "we are nothing more than chemical light-rays, wandering in the universe each running at a proper frequency. If we meet another light of similar frequency then the two resonate and a friendship or love ensues. Light rays can switch off in a blip"
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience

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