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Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

For topics that are more about faith, religion and religious organisations than anything else.
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thundril
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#61 Post by thundril » June 22nd, 2012, 2:14 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

stevenw888 wrote::finger: +1!
Are you sure that's the right emoticon, Steve?

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Dave B
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#62 Post by Dave B » June 22nd, 2012, 2:43 pm

I did wonder as well, but it is only one finger - if not the first finger! :D
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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stevenw888
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#63 Post by stevenw888 » June 22nd, 2012, 4:32 pm

Aah. sorry Dave! I meant "I'm with you on that one!" I must get some stronger glasses - most emoticons just look blurry from where I'm sitting!
"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." - From the film "Top Gun"

Compassionist
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#64 Post by Compassionist » June 22nd, 2012, 6:34 pm

stevenw888 wrote:It is not worth discussing the bible. It is a book, written by primitive people, almost 2,000 years ago and written many years after the so called "events" had taken place.
Its not even worthy of discussion. We would be far better spending our time discussing in depth, the book "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins, written only 36 years ago by a learned scholar. This book is my "bible" - the book I turn to when I want answers to seemingly unanswerable questions. Stop wasting time discussing the bible - it is a pointless exercise.
The Bible has literary merit, as well as wisdom (e.g. Proverbs). Just because it is old it doesn't mean that it is not worth discussing. Compass Direct News features many stories of Christians enduring persecution and still remaining Christian. It takes courage to do that. They may be mistaken in their worldview but they are certainly dedicated to being Christians.

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Dave B
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#65 Post by Dave B » June 22nd, 2012, 7:02 pm

Is martyrdom for faith a purely Christian thing? Were there no Muslims, Buddhists and (especially) Jews who defended their personal faith to the point of death?

If it had not been for the fact that the Romans had a gruesome taste in entertainment I wonder if the concept of the "persecuted Christian" would be such an example. Betcha they slaughtered those of many other faiths.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#66 Post by Compassionist » June 22nd, 2012, 7:14 pm

Dave B wrote:Is martyrdom for faith a purely Christian thing? Were there no Muslims, Buddhists and (especially) Jews who defended their personal faith to the point of death?

If it had not been for the fact that the Romans had a gruesome taste in entertainment I wonder if the concept of the "persecuted Christian" would be such an example. Betcha they slaughtered those of many other faiths.
Christians began persecuting pagans once Theodosius made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. When European Christians colonised the North and South America and Australia and parts of Asia they killed lots of non-Christians.

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Dave B
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#67 Post by Dave B » June 22nd, 2012, 8:19 pm

When European Christians colonised the North and South America and Australia and parts of Asia they killed lots of non-Christians.
Now, you have to be careful here, Compo, they feel that they were justified in killing those heathens. If they would not convert to Christianity then, so far as the Christians were concerned, it was better to put them to death rather than allow their immortal souls to accumulate more sin and a longer roasting in Purgatory.

So there!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Compassionist
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#68 Post by Compassionist » June 23rd, 2012, 11:00 am

Dave B wrote:
When European Christians colonised the North and South America and Australia and parts of Asia they killed lots of non-Christians.
Now, you have to be careful here, Compo, they feel that they were justified in killing those heathens. If they would not convert to Christianity then, so far as the Christians were concerned, it was better to put them to death rather than allow their immortal souls to accumulate more sin and a longer roasting in Purgatory.

So there!
I am afraid non-Christians don't go to Purgatory - they go to Hell for eternity. Looks like we will have an eternity together!

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animist
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#69 Post by animist » June 23rd, 2012, 11:31 am

Compassionist wrote:I am afraid non-Christians don't go to Purgatory - they go to Hell for eternity. Looks like we will have an eternity together!
that's the ultimate TH meetup then? Better start planning now!

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Dave B
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#70 Post by Dave B » June 23rd, 2012, 12:04 pm

Compassionist wrote:
Dave B wrote:
When European Christians colonised the North and South America and Australia and parts of Asia they killed lots of non-Christians.
Now, you have to be careful here, Compo, they feel that they were justified in killing those heathens. If they would not convert to Christianity then, so far as the Christians were concerned, it was better to put them to death rather than allow their immortal souls to accumulate more sin and a longer roasting in Purgatory.

So there!
I am afraid non-Christians don't go to Purgatory - they go to Hell for eternity. Looks like we will have an eternity together!
Oh, yeah, forgot that! No purging for us then? Shame!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#71 Post by Compassionist » June 23rd, 2012, 2:49 pm

Dave B wrote:
Compassionist wrote: I am afraid non-Christians don't go to Purgatory - they go to Hell for eternity. Looks like we will have an eternity together!
Oh, yeah, forgot that! No purging for us then? Shame!
Yes, indeed. Purgatory is a Roman Catholic concept. There is no Biblical basis for it. Protestants don't believe in Purgatory - just eternal Heaven (for the born-again Christians) and eternal Hell (for everyone else). I am puzzled by the fact that even born-again Christians do everything possible to prolong life and are opposed to euthanasia. I would have thought they would want to get to Heaven as soon as possible!

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animist
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#72 Post by animist » June 23rd, 2012, 3:16 pm

Compassionist wrote: I am puzzled by the fact that even born-again Christians do everything possible to prolong life and are opposed to euthanasia. I would have thought they would want to get to Heaven as soon as possible!
http://www.quotecounterquote.com/2011/1 ... n-but.html

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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#73 Post by Compassionist » June 23rd, 2012, 6:16 pm

animist wrote:
Compassionist wrote: I am puzzled by the fact that even born-again Christians do everything possible to prolong life and are opposed to euthanasia. I would have thought they would want to get to Heaven as soon as possible!
http://www.quotecounterquote.com/2011/1 ... n-but.html
:pointlaugh:

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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#74 Post by Compassionist » June 30th, 2012, 5:36 pm

Alan C. wrote:
Matthew, John and Peter (all of whom contributed to the New Testament) said they met Jesus and witnessed his miracles and resurrection.
Compo, nobody knows who wrote the new testament (even the Catholic encyclopedia admits this) What we do know is that it wasn't written until 70 to 100 years after Jesus' supposed existence, so none of the writers could have met him.

Your friend needs to read some books (other than his bible)

Cross posting with thundril.
This Christian website said the following:
Question: "Who were the authors of the books of the Bible?"

Answer: Ultimately, above the human authors, the Bible was written by God. Second Timothy 3:16 tells us that the Bible was “breathed out” by God. God superintended the human authors of the Bible so that, while using their own writing styles and personalities, they still recorded exactly what God intended. The Bible was not dictated by God, but it was perfectly guided and entirely inspired by Him.

Humanly speaking, the Bible was written by approximately 40 men of diverse backgrounds over the course of 1500 years. Isaiah was a prophet, Ezra was a priest, Matthew was a tax-collector, John was a fisherman, Paul was a tentmaker, Moses was a shepherd, Luke was a physician. Despite being penned by different authors over 15 centuries, the Bible does not contradict itself and does not contain any errors. The authors all present different perspectives, but they all proclaim the same one true God, and the same one way of salvation—Jesus Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:12). Few of the books of the Bible specifically name their author. Here are the books of the Bible along with the name of who is most assumed by biblical scholars to be the author, along with the approximate date of authorship:

Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy = Moses - 1400 B.C.
Joshua = Joshua - 1350 B.C.
Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel = Samuel/Nathan/Gad - 1000 - 900 B.C.
1 Kings, 2 Kings = Jeremiah - 600 B.C.
1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah = Ezra - 450 B.C.
Esther = Mordecai - 400 B.C.
Job = Moses - 1400 B.C.
Psalms = several different authors, mostly David - 1000 - 400 B.C.
Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon = Solomon - 900 B.C.
Isaiah = Isaiah - 700 B.C.
Jeremiah, Lamentations = Jeremiah - 600 B.C.
Ezekiel = Ezekiel - 550 B.C.
Daniel = Daniel - 550 B.C.
Hosea = Hosea - 750 B.C.
Joel = Joel - 850 B.C.
Amos = Amos - 750 B.C.
Obadiah = Obadiah - 600 B.C.
Jonah = Jonah - 700 B.C.
Micah = Micah - 700 B.C.
Nahum = Nahum - 650 B.C.
Habakkuk = Habakkuk - 600 B.C.
Zephaniah = Zephaniah - 650 B.C.
Haggai = Haggai - 520 B.C.
Zechariah = Zechariah - 500 B.C.
Malachi = Malachi - 430 B.C.
Matthew = Matthew - A.D. 55
Mark = John Mark - A.D. 50
Luke = Luke - A.D. 60
John = John - A.D. 90
Acts = Luke - A.D. 65
Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon = Paul - A.D. 50-70
Hebrews = unknown, mostly likely Paul, Luke, Barnabas, or Apollos - A.D. 65
James = James - A.D. 45
1 Peter, 2 Peter = Peter - A.D. 60
1 John, 2 John, 3 John = John - A.D. 90
Jude = Jude - A.D. 60
Revelation = John - A.D. 90

Recommended Resource: The Quest Study Bible.
I don't know what evidence they have to support the claimed authorships and the times. They didn't state any evidence.

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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#75 Post by Compassionist » July 3rd, 2012, 4:47 pm

What is the Humanist response to thinking like the answer below:

Question: "Does the Bible contain errors, contradictions, or discrepancies?"

Answer: If we read the Bible at face value, without a preconceived bias for finding errors, we will find it to be a coherent, consistent, and relatively easy-to-understand book. Yes, there are difficult passages. Yes, there are verses that appear to contradict each other. We must remember that the Bible was written by approximately 40 different authors over a period of around 1500 years. Each writer wrote with a different style, from a different perspective, to a different audience, for a different purpose. We should expect some minor differences. However, a difference is not a contradiction. It is only an error if there is absolutely no conceivable way the verses or passages can be reconciled. Even if an answer is not available right now, that does not mean an answer does not exist. Many have found a supposed error in the Bible in relation to history or geography only to find out that the Bible is correct once further archaeological evidence is discovered.

We often receive questions along the lines of “Explain how these verses do not contradict!” or “Look, here is an error in the Bible!” Admittedly, some of the things people bring up are difficult to answer. However, it is our contention that there are viable and intellectually plausible answers to every supposed Bible contradiction and error. There are books and websites available that list “all the errors in the Bible.” Most people simply get their ammunition from these places; they do not find supposed errors on their own. There are also books and websites available that refute every one of these supposed errors. The saddest thing is that most people who attack the Bible are not truly interested in an answer. Many “Bible attackers” are even aware of these answers, but they continue to use the same old shallow attacks again and again.

So, what are we to do when someone approaches us with an alleged Bible error? 1) Prayerfully study the Scriptures and see if there is a simple solution. 2) Do some research using some of the fine Bible commentaries, “Bible defense” books, and biblical research websites. 3) Ask our pastors/church leaders to see if they can find a solution. 4) If there is still no clear answer after steps 1), 2), and 3) are followed, we trust God that His Word is truth and that there is a solution that just simply has not been realized yet (2 Timothy 2:15; 3:16-17).

Recommended Resource: The Big Book of Bible Difficulties by Geisler & Howe.

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Sel
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#76 Post by Sel » July 3rd, 2012, 5:15 pm

:pointlaugh: So the final answer is "So that's the truth". Everything in the bible is true because the bible says it is. Geesh you can't beat that argument.
"The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge." Bertrand Russell

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Tetenterre
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#77 Post by Tetenterre » July 3rd, 2012, 6:10 pm

Sheesh! Special pleading or what!
Steve

Quantum Theory: The branch of science with which people who know absolutely sod all about quantum theory can explain anything.

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Alan C.
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#78 Post by Alan C. » July 3rd, 2012, 6:21 pm

we trust God that His Word is truth and that there is a solution that just simply has not been realized yet
Well it is also called the gospel. :laughter:
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#79 Post by Compassionist » July 3rd, 2012, 8:20 pm

First, they assume that the Bible is God's Words and then they assume that the words are infallible because they are allegedly God's Words. Circular and presumptive irrational reasoning! They are impossible to reason with because they just assert their assumptions as facts.

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Alan C.
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#80 Post by Alan C. » July 3rd, 2012, 8:34 pm

I'm sure I've said this before compo (another thread?)
Ask your "friends" Where was "Jesus" and what was he doing, between boyhood and age 30, also ask them why a 30 year old Jewish man didn't have a wife (unthinkable 2,000 years ago)
Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.

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animist
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Re: Evidence (?) for Christ's Resurrection

#81 Post by animist » July 3rd, 2012, 9:16 pm

Compassionist wrote:First, they assume that the Bible is God's Words and then they assume that the words are infallible because they are allegedly God's Words. Circular and presumptive irrational reasoning! They are impossible to reason with because they just assert their assumptions as facts.
so you have to make them see that they are doing this by demanding that they give at least someone reason for their beliefs - and for their certainty

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