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I would say that I have pretty much an even number of both men and women in my life as far as friends and relatives are concerned. What I see from that is that we think alike in most things. However, more men commit murder, steal, and are unfaithful than women are. Am I to conclude that women are more honest and honorable than men are because of that? I don't want to think like that. I think that it's not really man vs woman when it comes to what we think and do. It's "some people" think one way and "some people" think another. I know some men who are more emotional than most of the women I know. So we can't blame our thought process on emotions as far as men vs women goes. It comes down to respect that we, as individuals, have for ourselves and others. Saying that men think one way, and women another, becomes an excuse for bad behavior.INFORMATION
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Why do most men and women think so differently?
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
Laugh often/love much;leave the world a bit better whether by a healthy child,a garden patch,or a redeemed social condition;play w/enthusiasm & sing w/exultation;know even 1 life has breathed easier because you lived. This is success.B.A.Stanley
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
Hmmm... Of course we can find find individuals who buck the trend. But I think the different sexes have different tendencies by virtue of their nature, not nurture. For example, I can think of several highly qualified, very accomplished females, (can't work out if I should say women or ladies...), all under 55, one a tax expert (beyond chartered accountant- serious stuff), one a GP, one a government adviser on mental health policy, but all of whom have opted for a 4-day week rather than continue to climb the greasy pole. Off-hand, I can't think of any men whohave doen the same thing. I can think of several men who have 'opted out' of the rat race, usually because of an unwelcome earthquake in their lives, but I think that is different.
This will inevitably skew the comparative earnings of males and females, but that doesn't mean that we should overcome these differences with "equal pay" legislation. Maybe the women have got it right, and chosen a better life for themselves.
This will inevitably skew the comparative earnings of males and females, but that doesn't mean that we should overcome these differences with "equal pay" legislation. Maybe the women have got it right, and chosen a better life for themselves.
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
Equal work should mean equal pay for anyone in this country. It shouldn't even be an issue.
Laugh often/love much;leave the world a bit better whether by a healthy child,a garden patch,or a redeemed social condition;play w/enthusiasm & sing w/exultation;know even 1 life has breathed easier because you lived. This is success.B.A.Stanley
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
I should have known.Gurdur wrote: My sense of humour. Me being sarky/cheeky.
I think you've got a point here. Not only can it be an excuse for bad behaviour but millions of dollars (or pounds) have been made from capitalizing on the supposed innate differences. ie. Men are from Venus etc.Carja wrote: Saying that men think one way, and women another, becomes an excuse for bad behavior.
There are lots of reasons why people chose to work a 4 day week but I'm not so sure we can assume that it's necessarily about their gender. You don't mention any other extenuating reasons why these women made their choice. We might assume they could have small children or they live well within their budgets or they've hit a glass ceiling. I know men who have taken parental leave or arranged for flex time so they can be at home possibly with families or just because.Nick wrote:For example, I can think of several highly qualified, very accomplished females, all under 55, one a tax expert (beyond chartered accountant- serious stuff), one a GP, one a government adviser on mental health policy, but all of whom have opted for a 4-day week rather than continue to climb the greasy pole. Off-hand, I can't think of any men whohave doen the same thing.
Transformative fire...
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
Can we change "this country" for "every country" Carja?Carja wrote:Equal work should mean equal pay for anyone in this country. It shouldn't even be an issue.
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015
Me, 2015
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
Dave B wrote:Can we change "this country" for "every country" Carja?Carja wrote:Equal work should mean equal pay for anyone in this country. It shouldn't even be an issue.
Of course.
Laugh often/love much;leave the world a bit better whether by a healthy child,a garden patch,or a redeemed social condition;play w/enthusiasm & sing w/exultation;know even 1 life has breathed easier because you lived. This is success.B.A.Stanley
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
Quite so, Carja, but there will always be differences, partly arising from different perspectives between the sexes, and partly because women are unsurprisingly the principal child carers.Carja wrote:Equal work should mean equal pay for anyone in this country. It shouldn't even be an issue.
Women are less likely to strive for promotion, less likely to seek higher paid work (other factors may be more important) and more likely to seek the quieter life and so on. In my own industry, nearly all the participants are male, but the few women I come across are very good indeed, as they generally have a much more organised approach to their work than the men, who think brute force will do.
Statistics are a useful tool, but one should always examine them closely so as not to draw the wrong conclusions.
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
Hmm I think you have hit something there, Nick, "equal pay for equal work" is, I suppose, the full cry. But that supposes work that is as near a equality as two people can make it.
Two gardeners, for e.g., might have similar training and experience but very different physical abilities. Regardless of gender should they be paid the same if they work in the same garden? Complex, role modelling assumes that a male can lift heavier stuff than a woman for longer periods. I know a female archaeologist who could challenge some machinery in smashing concrete paving!
Two gardeners, for e.g., might have similar training and experience but very different physical abilities. Regardless of gender should they be paid the same if they work in the same garden? Complex, role modelling assumes that a male can lift heavier stuff than a woman for longer periods. I know a female archaeologist who could challenge some machinery in smashing concrete paving!
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015
Me, 2015
- Emma Woolgatherer
- Posts: 2976
- Joined: February 27th, 2008, 12:17 pm
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
I can't believe I missed this thread. Not that I would have felt ready to contribute anyway. I've only just started reading Delusions of Gender: The Real Science Behind Sex Differences, by Cordelia Fine. But the index shows several entries for "corpus callosum", and I thought it might be worth quoting from a couple of pages, even though the thread seems to have changed direction and then died:
The supposedly larger female corpus callosum, a claim built on shaky foundations, in under no less serious dispute. This research has been thoroughly examined and critiqued by Brown University professor of biology Anne Fausto-Sterling who, in Sexing the Body, explains the challenges of establishing the size of a particular structure in the brain. And a meta-analysis conducted by Katherine Bishop and Douglas Wahlsten in 1997 concluded that 'the widespread belief that women have a larger splenium [the posterior portion of the corpus callosum] than men and consequently think differently is untenable.' Summarising this literature in a 2008 review, cognitive neuroscientist Mikkel Wallentin concluded that 'the alleged sex-related corpus callosum size difference is a myth.' The culprit? Look no further than 'the possibility of "discovering" spurious differences when using small sample sizes,' says Wallentin.
Emma... recent studies of brain structure have argued that it is not that women have larger corpora callosa, or a more generous serving of grey matter, relative to brain volume. Rather, it is people with small brains, male or female, who show this quality. As one group put it: 'brain size matters more than sex.'
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
Speaking of small brain size, can you please clarify this quote? I'm having trouble deciphering if they are trying to say that men and women who have small brains have larger corpora callosa or smaller? I plead early morning brain freeze for not getting it. It's before 8am here.Emma Woolgatherer wrote:.. recent studies of brain structure have argued that it is not that women have larger corpora callosa, or a more generous serving of grey matter, relative to brain volume. Rather, it is people with small brains, male or female, who show this quality. As one group put it: 'brain size matters more than sex.'
Transformative fire...
- Emma Woolgatherer
- Posts: 2976
- Joined: February 27th, 2008, 12:17 pm
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
Larger, as a proportion of total brain size. Well, that was how I interpreted it. If you have a smaller brain, then a larger proportion of it will be corpus callosum. And because women are smaller, on average, than men, they have smaller brains, on average, than men. But women with larger brains will not have larger corpora callosa proportionally than men with smaller brains.Marian wrote:Speaking of small brain size, can you please clarify this quote? I'm having trouble deciphering if they are trying to say that men and women who have small brains have larger corpora callosa or smaller?
Emma
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
Er, can't quite make up my mind as to whether that made it easier to understand or not, Emma!Emma Woolgatherer wrote:Larger, as a proportion of total brain size. Well, that was how I interpreted it. If you have a smaller brain, then a larger proportion of it will be corpus callosum. And because women are smaller, on average, than men, they have smaller brains, on average, than men. But women with larger brains will not have larger corpora callosa proportionally than men with smaller brains.Marian wrote:Speaking of small brain size, can you please clarify this quote? I'm having trouble deciphering if they are trying to say that men and women who have small brains have larger corpora callosa or smaller?
Emma
Sounds like the idea that our brain is actually almost a "colony" of brains, so it would seem that if the corpus collosum remains a fairly constant size regardless of the whole brain size then it is larger in proportion for those with a smaller overall brain?
"Look forward; yesterday was a lesson, if you did not learn from it you wasted it."
Me, 2015
Me, 2015
- Emma Woolgatherer
- Posts: 2976
- Joined: February 27th, 2008, 12:17 pm
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
Oh, dear. Sorry!Dave B wrote:Er, can't quite make up my mind as to whether that made it easier to understand or not, Emma!
I'm not sure what sort of differences are involved here. In rhesus monkeys, the corpus callosum is smaller in females than in males, but the splenium (posterior portion) is larger, and not just proportionally larger. I'm also not sure how ageing affects these figures, because presumably a lot of the brains that have been measured are those of older people, and older people's brains weigh less than those of young adults, and it seems unlikely that the corpus callosum wouldn't shrink too. Anyway, I have found a 1998 paper about brain size and the corpus callosum, and from skimming through I've gleaned that the brain size link is only part of the story, and that the variance in size of the corpus callosum is only partly explained ("no more than 30%") by the "allometric relationship" with forebrain volume. The authors think that it's likely that some of the variance is caused by environmental factors. "Studies of humans have suggested a considerable degree of callosal plasticity during brain development until adulthood possibly induced by environmental stimulation." Sounds reasonable to me. The positive effect of a complex rearing environment on the size of the corpus callosum has also been demonstrated in rhesus monkeys.Dave B wrote:Sounds like the idea that our brain is actually almost a "colony" of brains, so it would seem that if the corpus collosum remains a fairly constant size regardless of the whole brain size then it is larger in proportion for those with a smaller overall brain?
Emma
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
Are we sure there is no doctor among us able to "illuminate us"?
The only thing I fear of death is regret if I couldn’t complete my learning experience
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
There are physical differences between sexes, including differences in the structure and/or activity patterns of the brain. But there are physical differences between members of the same sex as well. I'm not sure how useful gender segregation is as a mechanism for understanding the cognitive implications of the different mental physiologies of different people.
When generalising about gender differences in cognitive behaviour the generalisations made tend to be strongly cultural in their formulation, making it hard to pick apart the influences of culture and physiology. That isn't to say that there aren't genuine gender-related differences in thought processes, it's just that those differences may stem from perceived gender roles and experience rather than any innate physical mental infrastructure.
When generalising about gender differences in cognitive behaviour the generalisations made tend to be strongly cultural in their formulation, making it hard to pick apart the influences of culture and physiology. That isn't to say that there aren't genuine gender-related differences in thought processes, it's just that those differences may stem from perceived gender roles and experience rather than any innate physical mental infrastructure.
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
N.B. there is an interesting review of one element of this discussion here:
Gender-related dimorphisms in the patterns of cellular activity and neuronal plasticity in response to repeated stress (pdf)
Gender-related dimorphisms in the patterns of cellular activity and neuronal plasticity in response to repeated stress (pdf)
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
I did briefly hear a neuroscientist on Radio 4 last week I think saying there were some differences in the brains of men and women, but nothing significant.Paolo wrote:There are physical differences between sexes, including differences in the structure and/or activity patterns of the brain. But there are physical differences between members of the same sex as well. I'm not sure how useful gender segregation is as a mechanism for understanding the cognitive implications of the different mental physiologies of different people.
Alan Henness
There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:
1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?
There are three fundamental questions for anyone advocating Brexit:
1. What, precisely, are the significant and tangible benefits of leaving the EU?
2. What damage to the UK and its citizens is an acceptable price to pay for those benefits?
3. Which ruling of the ECJ is most persuasive of the need to leave its jurisdiction?
Re: Why do most men and women think so differently?
How about the influence of testosterone and oxytocin? Why is it that Ed Balls felt the need to stand for the Labour leadership, while his wife, (Mrs Balls, who wisely wishes to be known as Yvette Cooper,) cited her 3 young children as a reason not to stand. Even though, to judge by the result of the shadow cabinet vote, she stood as good a chance as her husband, if not better, of winning? I'm not criticising either of them (unless we are talking economics ), but I think it is not helpful to science or understanding to ignore such apparent evidence of differences between the sexes.
Please note that there is no "should" in the above paragraph. I'm just suggesting we deal with evidence. I'd prefer Yvette to Ed any day! And maybe we should seek to "overcome" such differences (that's a whole new debate!), but it is unscientific to ignore it.
Please note that there is no "should" in the above paragraph. I'm just suggesting we deal with evidence. I'd prefer Yvette to Ed any day! And maybe we should seek to "overcome" such differences (that's a whole new debate!), but it is unscientific to ignore it.